marylou

It's not an "ethical" issue when bolts are installed with a power drill in a wilderness, it's a legal issue. Even if you think it's ok to steal candy bars from 7-11, it's still not legal.

Hm. I guess I'd never see it as a plus if they are taught right from the get-go to ignore the regs. It's not such a giant step from IB to using a snowmobile in the wilderness in the winter months, and then from there, a mountain bike or a dirt bike in the summer. Not good.

K'bone--Joseph said what I was going to, except much better and more eloquently. Bad stewardship begets bad results. As far as Climbing's ink of IB, I think all that needs to be said about that is they hired Jonathon "light my fire" Thesenga back as EIC.

It's been said that the FA team didn't know the route was inside the wilderness at the time they were installing the bolts. Hard to imagine, given how long it's been since that area was added, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Obviously they know now. Seems to me it would be the right thing for them to chop their own line. They wouldn't have put it up, or they'd have done it by hand drill if they'd known it was inside the wilderness, right? Of course they would. So they should do the right thing and issue an apology to the community and the local land managers. THAT would be good for the image of climbers. It's really simple when you think about it.

If that route had been bolted by hand, I might agree with you, but since it wasn't, and the routesetter claims it wasn't in Wilderness on the map, I say BS both to you, and to him. In the latter case for not doing his homework on the boundaries. IB has been in the wildernes since the '80s, and if there was even one iota of uncertainty, one phone call to the NB Ranger office would have cleared it up. Most of my maps have it outside, but at least one has it inside. If it were clearly outside the wilderness, there would be no discussion IMO.

I don't know man. I spoke with him on the phone last night and he said he was "Feeling Like Elvis". He's so hopped up on pain meds right now that I bet you could talk him into it. BTW,his docs told him surgery went well. I'm going to go visit on Monday, but I bet he's posting here by then. He's hangin' out at home.

...if you don't have any other interests. There's plenty going on here, and I have no plans to go outside except to get to my car.

I think you should see how long it takes to splice 2 kernmantle ropes together. Shouldn't take any more time than 2 laid lines, right?

Am I going blind, or is the 'EDK' just an overhand knot?

I hope the show was good. The rehearsal yesterday was a bit disappointing. Today's rehearsal was a lot better, and from what I saw of the show, it wasn't too bad. They were a lot better when they were a real band though. This was their first real arena load-out of the tour. I gotta say, seventeen semis, and we got it out in less than three hours. I bet I'll be a bit sore tomorrow though.

If you don't find a good home for any,I might take one off your hands at no cost to you to weave into a doormat. I have a retired rope, but it's an ass ugly color. The static in particular might be nice if it's black. Hey, it's no money, but at least I could repurpose one for ya!

I don't think we are in imminent danger of IB becoming a Via Ferrata in the traditional sense. Discussions of IB seem to never much get into the fact that the route was illegally drilled in a wilderness area. It's only by the grace of underfunding and the fact that the local land managers seem to not care much that the route is still bolted.* *my understanding is that the access trail is a much bigger problem than the hilti problem in the eyes of the land managers. Both are verboten, but the trail is high-profile due to publicity. There have been fishermen's and climber's trails since, before and after Wilderness designation that have never caused problems, but this trail is considered a problem.

1. Twisp 2. Bend, OR (though less and less..) 3. Stanley, ID (no one said I had to support myself, and hey! what a town!) 4. Red Lodge, MT (I haven't fly fished over there yet or it may have a higher ranking 5. Cle Elum, maybe If I had to be practical, and could wait a few years, maybe Wenatchee. It pains me to say that, but the mountain access....yeah, baby.

Hm...I don't think a convincing argument could be made that this wouldn't create huge problems with overly confident drivers. I hate gates as much as the next overly confident driver, but yeah, I can't see that happening there or pretty much anywhere else roads are gated seasonally to keep people from being idiotic.

I know there is a correct way to remove a bolt, make an epoxy mix with rock dust of the same color, and fill the hole. Have I ever done it? No, but I get the idea. It would work just fine and be pretty much invisible. What I would like to know, from those who have, or do chop, is this ever done? If not, then why? A chopped bolt, left unfilled, leaves a bigger scar on the landscape than the bolt ever would.

I'd call up the Darrington RD office and ask to speak to Dawn or Gary Paull. Dawn and Gary are both rangers out of the D'town office (though Gary has a fancy job and isn't always there), they know their district very well, and happen to live in Darrington. With road work and such, conditions are changing constantly. If it hasn't been posted here before, there are no plans to open the Suattle or the White Chuck this season. The White Chuck is still in limbo and may be ultimately accessed via the Rat Trap Pass road from the Suiattle, with the lower WC closing or becoming a trail. All in all, the FS, and the MBSNF are totally screwed right now for funding. I went to a deal last night with the MORA, NOCA, and ONP Supers and Norm Dicks. They talked about park storm damage and funding. The parks are totally getting what they need, and to their credit, getting it done quick. But after the presentations, there was Q and A and there were questions from the audience about FS funding, most notably from Joel Connely, cranky reporter from the P-I. Congressman Dicks and his colleague from WI who was also there, paid a bit of lip service, but it didn't sound like there was much being done to IMMEDIATELY address the huge funding problems currently facing the FS. Pres. Bush really likes the Parks and will sign anything that makes him look good on parks, but I got the impression that the Congressmen (both on the committee that make the budget reccomendations for Parks and the FS) were not at all prepared to deal with the looming, and not so sexy, issue of FS funding. Frustrating, to say the least. Normally Norm Dicks is Mr. Pork, and right now we need help in getting our FS lands the funding they need to maintain and care for their land, especially the Wilderness system. [/soapbox]

Petey is actually a pretty standup guy, but he's also happily married.

And I was making the assumption from his posts that he'd not had the X-Rays looked over by an orthpedic surgeon. It's my understanding, and been my experience, that certain bone breaks are more difficult to diagnose than others.

I broke my talus as well at one point in my life. One thing I learned is that it can be difficult to spot a talus fracture, and the first two docs missed it in xrays. I cracked my calc at the same time as the talus. Calc healed fine with no surgery, talus required surgery and no weight bearing for what seemed like ages. Long term=calc no problems, talus still bugs me today.

Jens, check your email if you haven't already. This may be a pretty serious injury. AW

Gregory=TFO=Nalgene:tup:

Sat/Sun: Hike up Ingalls Creek to my super-secret spot, overnight. Sun/Mon: Sleep somewhere and probably bother fish on Monday or maybe hike or mushroom hunt somewhere, somesuch. Pretty much average for me, but with more days.

Oh got it Tony. Yeah a lot of the TBs are, or were active in sports besides fishing. It's just not "run by climbers" so far as I know. A lot of the places the TBs get into might raise the hair of your average hiker. Several of the HLs under the age of 80 are also TBs.

I've never had major problems with them, but I'm a hiker much more than a climber, so the puncture issue could be a problem I just haven't had. That said, if you want to buy a hydration system, I think the Nalgene/TFO ones are the best. The bite valve is positive and locks shut, and the bags themselves are pretty bomber. I had one get a little hole in it in '04 that I put wide clear tape on, still ticking. The newer ones have a really big cap on them that allows for better cleaning. All the hydration bags can get funky if they don't get properly dried out between trips, but one solution that seems to work quite well is to store it wet (empty) in the freezer. No greeblies!! I always bring an old 20 oz Gatorade bottle as a backup and because it's a lot easier to pour out of/brush teeth with etc. than a hydration thing. They weigh one oz. including the lid and are free with the purchase of Gatorade. They are good for a month or so before they get icky.

I tried out the Delorme software a couple of years ago, and at that time, found that they had deleted far too much of the original data for the maps to be all that useful. For computer maps, Topo! is the best out there unless you want to step waaay up and get MapTech.