glassgowkiss

thanks for the info. i am there. # link is what i was looking for

are these newer mixed climbs in Alpental and baker included?

well said Jason!. I would like to point out a couple of facts. The number of cracks and natural protection features is limmited. Between these naturally protectable lines there are holds people can climb on- hence bolting is the way to protect these things. Also bolting was going on for decades-look at all these older aid lines. i don't see anybody questioning these climbs. as the new techniques and styles develop people will experiment with them. after all you need to learn how to put up a new route somewhere. a chossy moss ovegrown heap pile looks like to me a good place to start. Climbing have changed, styles have changed, gear have changed, get on with it people! i don't say bolt every piece of rock. but on the other hand to a young punk boulderer your big mountain boots and ice axe look as loughable as their crash pad and chalk bucket. people, it's all climbing, just different angles. just let it be...

did hwy 97 way back when, with sf. we called the whole thing "the driveway grovel" for a reason.....needs some cleaning

crescent crack is closed period. if people keep tresspassing railroad warned they will spray entire bottom of Mallalute with concrete to prevent climbing.

.....

i just think sunshine is more like 11d (used to be 12a) and the gear in that rock sucks. and i strongly belive that the best routes at smith are 12 and above. and not because of the grade, but the quality of rock and moves themselves. and i think people get intimidated by the numbers too easy and they sell themselves short. werd

but we need a place to train somewhere, don't we? most of the crag areas are too low for mixed (temps stay above freezing).

jb- the best routes at smith start at 12 and up. they are doable though. just pick a couple of easier one and try to redpoint them. if you climb a ton of 11's you'll get good at 11's. you need to get spanked to get strong. aim high (join airforce )

hey goatblower- first of all i don't diss people when they put up new routes - unlike a lot of this crowd still debating on bolting issues. second, i just stated a simple fact that there aren't any hard routes by todays standards- rock or mixed, period. if you'd open last couple of issues of Alpinist you would see at what level people climb. last winter i did put up a new route- i didn't see you line up (or anybody else as the matter of fact) to repeat it. as the matter of fact a day before another party bailed from under the same face as i recall (quite competent climbers), so maybe you should shut up. plus i just spent 2 months in europe climbing (where btw i managed to send 7c+, how many have you done sucker??), so now i have to make some doe. werd I agree that there have been no advancements in climbing done in the PNW, for whatever reasons. But sport climbing does indeed provide training for extreme trad routes. Pope. You ever heard of The Honeymoon if Over, on the Diamond? 13c at close to 14k. Who did it? Oh, right, that 'sport monkey' Caldwell. How'd he get so strong? That's right, clipping bolts! It's the exact same progression that's happening in alpinism/mixed climbing. That new line on Howse Peak, it's bold, hard, and unrepeated. Who did it? Oh, right, the modern 'bolt junkies' Will Gadd and Co. So shut up. It's people like you who keep the level of climbing down by making some pathetic excuses. LAME! Glasgow, I agree with your sentiments, but don't argue on the basis of individual climbing abilities. Makes you look like an asshole, just because Goat doesn't climb 13s doesn't mean his opinion isn't legit. it is legit to the point. and the point was i don't diss people for trying to put up new climbs. i am an elitist prick, so what? i just wanted to get some facts straight. and at least i can back up my spray with some climbing, that's all. i am an asshole and proud of it. i weare it like a badge.

MattP is good at making his own points, but in this case, since you may have misunderstood his message, I think he's suggesting that because these new mixed climbs are kind of new/novel/rare, somehow having a few of them around is less obnoxious than the dime-a-dozen sport routes along I-90. Difficult, long mixed climbs have been put up in the Rockies and often go unrepeated for decades. Some haven't been repeated. And they weren't rap bolted. Part of difficult mixed climbing has always been dealing with the diffulties in arranging protection. You think that you can somehow throw that aspect of mixed climbing out and do this sport/ice monkey busines....and this is going to prepare you for difficult mixed climbing in the high mountains, where there is no string of bolts? You guys who claim to be interested in pushing the standards of ice/mixed climbing are just taking the lazy way out. Instead of climbing big, bold and truly challenging mixed routes, you're piddling around on some safe-n-sane, road-side pitch that had been arrogantly bolted, under the assumption that those who pursue winter sports at the pass will benefit from these permanent modifications. first let's get the story straight- pope- you have no idea what hard climbing is all about, whether it's rock, mixed or ice. now, before tou get your panties all bunched up in a wad stop for a second and think. what's your hardest rock climb, what's your hardest mixed? do you even know how does M8 or 5.14 look like? you talk loud, but talk minus action= zilch. show us the way, please. send some hard crack- i have a perfect one for you- the great arch @ squamish. let's see how you do it. or maybe City park? you talk a lot of shit about ethics, bolts =bad, bold= good. but that's where it ends, talk. produce some back up or stop spraying your nonsense biatch.

hey goatblower- first of all i don't diss people when they put up new routes - unlike a lot of this crowd still debating on bolting issues. second, i just stated a simple fact that there aren't any hard routes by todays standards- rock or mixed, period. if you'd open last couple of issues of Alpinist you would see at what level people climb. last winter i did put up a new route- i didn't see you line up (or anybody else as the matter of fact) to repeat it. as the matter of fact a day before another party bailed from under the same face as i recall (quite competent climbers), so maybe you should shut up. plus i just spent 2 months in europe climbing (where btw i managed to send 7c+, how many have you done sucker??), so now i have to make some doe. werd

i am looking for some info on new mixed routes around whistler area. how to get there, gear, grades? thanks

mattp- as you might have noticed standards in rock climbing are rising and the biggets jump took place with development of sport climbing. it's the same with mixed. you need guns and technique so you can be fast and strong in the mountains. one more point- i think this is why there are no hard climbs in the Cascades by todays standards

so paco- do we need your official permision to bolt? is it your own little private pissing territory? btw. people who put down mixed climbing are lame. thanks to climbs like Heffner climbers can dash up A-Strain in 12 hours rt (it's M5) or do climbs like Howse of cards. calgary/canmore scene is awsome, people climb hard, they put up new routes and you guys suck ass

have anybody climbed this route? any info? btw did mercy street last week- one of the best climbs in squamish for sure and no crowds.

sunshine 5.9+. buddy you are hard core. want to see your bulging eyes when you lead on sketchy RP's.

how about going to Smith and answer your own question?

here we go again, pissing match! i have my little playgroung and all the rest of you fuckers stay away from it! What a bunch of hyppie earth hugging biggots. ok- one helicopter- oh my what a noise pollution! dry snowpack????? wtf- my turf not yours, my wave not yours. as you can see i am for it, maybe access to Wadington range will be cheaper!

fuck italy france and all the other sheit. go to Czech republic and Slovakia. Maybe go to Chorwacja or Slowenia. places are cheap, people are friendly. Amsterdam, fuck that- Praga rules! plus you can swing by Teplice and climb sandstone. Slovakia has some awsome limestone, all bolt protected. plus hiking is kick ass and you can get by without a car. I was in the area for 7 weeks, spend about $1200 +plane ticket. also would be better to after the tourist season is over, so you don't have to put up with crowds. bonus- chicks are good looking, friendly and nice (they don't behave like the universe revolves around them) oh yeah, beer is good and cheap too, so is food.

forgot to add "eh"?

What a bunch of pseudo-scientific horseshit. Most NSAIDS knock down production of prostaglandins, IL-1, IL4, IL-8, TNF, etc... through inhibition of the COX pathway. The relationship between catabolic muscle growth and the portion of the immune system associated with inflammation is poorly understood at the cellular level, much less the at the musculoskeletal level. I'd bet my bottom dollar the studies you quote are either overinterpreting their results, misinterpreting their results, or represent an unrealistic system. At best you might be able to refer to tissues healed 'in the presence of anti-inflammatories.' (How did they isolate them? How did they determine "50% strength"? How did they determine it was anti-inflamms and not the nature of the injury itself? How did they control this? Yada, yada, yada... Science ain't that easy, that's why only overeducated masochists pursue it...) You might also want to take note of the differences between rofecoxib, celecoxib, ibuprofen and aspirin. They're all NSAIDS, and they all have very different metabolic profiles. You'd have to eat a lot of ibuprofen to kill yourself. Roughly 50 grams in one sitting, assuming Carolyn is a 110 pound mouse... Millions of years ago, monkeys with chronic back problems were eaten before the age of thirty. They didn't worry about whether or not they could fly across the states and go climbing in a week. NSAIDS will help reduce swelling. Muscle relaxants and pain killers help in dealing with pain. Time and rest will effect healing. I'm not arguing against stretching and heat (although I think cold therapy would be a better call - particularly in the case of obvious swelling), but I think massaging inflamed tissue is jumping the gun. I should have added that I'm in no way a fan of maintenance dosing of ibuprofen (although many docs are...). When your back feels better, stop popping pills. -t in short i am too busy to argue with you via internet about this. working with athletes almost every day i can see what works and what doesn't. and your spew is as pseudo-scientific as my is. while in european teams for many years massage/body work was a norm in the US common treatment was novocaine/cortisone injections. maybe you should read about Kurt Marsh (who btw is super nice guy) and see how treatents like that (or mistreatments) led to amputation of his leg. by no means i don't say i have answers to pain and injuries. i try offer some alternatives to fucked up medical system operating here. yes, like i mentioned, ice is better then heat. but heat has some positive sides to and can be used as a great tool combined with ice.

now that's new one even Group health (one of the most conservative insurance companies) in thier study released a few months ago concluded massage therapy for back pain brought the most long lasting effects in pain reduction and tissue function like with everyhting there are good therapist and bad one....

one more note- anti- inflammatories knock off a bunch of enzymes from your system. these enzymes help remodel your tissues. there were several studies showing tissues healed with anti-inflammatory drugs were up to 50% weaker. about 30 000 a year die from drug poisoning because they are prescribed antiinflammatory drugs (Viox and Celebrex). so in a long run you're much better of not using them and let you body go through natural process of healing- it worked for millions of years! just give it some time!

Carolyn, John is right, it's NOT lactic acid. what you have they are called adhessions of the muscle. muscle groups, muscles and muscle bands (within the same muscle) are wraped with a connective tissue called facia. it provides smooth surface and decreases friction between the muscle while they contract and relax. sometimes there is tearing occuring in this tissue, muscles become "glued" and stuck together. because you still use the muscle extra collagen is introduced to the area building scarr tissue. (collagen is intoruced in a "random" parttern, not in a linear way). The symtoms you are describing you might have sprained your sacro-illiac joint. You might have too tight Gluteus muscles, Illiotybial Band and hyperactive Illiopsoas (deep hip flexors). don't use too much heat, yes, it feel good at the moment, but it increases inflammation over all. you can use heat, but use ice afterwards. light stretching is ok, as long as you don't feel ANY pain during the stretch. there is a great book for stretching by Aaron Mattis called Active Isolated Stretching. for hamstings- flat on the back and raise straight leg up- don't bend your knee- since hamstrings cross your knee. for gluts: flat on your back and bring seperate knee towards your arm pit (same side) after doing both legs 8- 10 times do them together. hold these stretches only for 3 to 4 seconds. do some back extensions- flat on your stomach raise your trunk as far as you can go. there are several illiopsoas stretches- is quite hard to describe it here, but common one is kneeling on one knee and doing a "dip" with you trunk straight. contact someone regarding this thing. looks like you have an ongoing history of back problem, you'll need to find a long range solution. these condition can be very painful and impacting the quality of your life. Pain meds and anti-inflammatory are NOT the answer. some cross fiber friction and some myofacial work would bring you some relief. also you must figure out an excercise program to maintain your tissues. hope it helps. BTW if it is SI joint, it usually takes a week or 2 to get better.