glassgowkiss

From 8a.nu: "In Campanili di Lastei, Pale di S. Martino, Dolomiti, Manolo and Riccardo Scarian have opened a very hard multi-pitch route, called Cani Morti, declaring "8a obb" (only Wogü, by Beat Kammerlander in Rätikon, has this "obb" grade). The route, 5 pitches, 200 mt, is still to be freed, and they think that the max. difficulty is 8b/8b+, in the first pitch (20 mt, 4 bolt). In all the 5 pitches there are long run-outs on high demanding level of climbing. Altitude 2700 mt, the rock is excellent. "Obb" is short for "Obbligato", meaning that you must free that grade on that route. Aid-climbing is possible on more difficult grade only" next spring i am going on bolting frienzy.....

what's wrong with you? get the bindings you think they will work well. but if you're thinking you'll be going into avalanche zone and count on surviving one think again!! my advice is- if you're thinking you can get cought in an avalache- don't go there. shit happens so fast, you won't even have time to get your board off your feet. it's like trying to wrestle with a train- you can't win!

from 8a.nu 1The top-5 onsight climbers in the world 2003-09-12 1 Adam Pustelnik POL 11800 2 Eric Siguier FRA 11550 3 Fred Tuscan FRA 11500 4 Evgeny Krivosheytsev UKR 11500 5 Chris Lindner USA 11300 adam collected quite a list: on sights: 1x 8b (13d), 5x8a+(13c), 4x8a (13b). on the top he has redpointed 3x8c+(14c). quite impresive! i am convinced there is nobody in the PNW, who can match top euro climbers.

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a couple of points to consider, which poped out during the latest . first of all, what i don't understand is why anti- bolting population can't accept sport climbing as a valid activity. why does it have to be their way? second- usually bolting has nothing to do with access issues- look at Hueco- there was just bouldering. usually climbing areas get closed not because of fact of bolting, but because of the activity of climbing itself. so both sides are effected. third- in a lot of "trad areas" there is a lot of garbage littering the walls. useless rusted pitons, stuck cams with broken cables and slings, useless wires, bashies, slings and so on. have you looked into the crack of outerspace? few dosen stoppers, slings and other dropped gear inside. look at more popular routes in yosemite. personaly sometimes i'd rather see a well camuflaged bolt then some rusted pitonor other garbage (which by the way can't trust after a couple of years). let's face it- 3 decades of big wall/alpine climbing in North America left way more useless shit on rock then the whole sport climbing crowd combined. even more- the same people crying out now about bolting issues and preserving rock for future generations are guilty of the most massive chip job. just look at the lines on walls like elcap! talking more about estetics- did few climbs in canyonlands and saw a massive "skid mark" from a cam grinding into soft sandstone. it's not such uncommon thing. these are some thoughts for all of you out there with hollier the thou attitude- i climb trad/aid, so i am not guilty of anything

is chinabend any good, need a honest opinion before i drive for 6 hours.how does it compare to american fork, logan or rifle?

I think guidebooks should be like history records. they should inform. everyone should make up their mind, whether they like it or not. this country is so fucked up as far as "morality". so it's ok to show people shot, killed, maimed on tv, but try to sneak a little tit action....catching my drift? i think it's a general problem with media (unfortunate climbing books have to get published), trying to present that life in general is very sterile, safe and clean. diproportion of language spoken on a street corner and one presented by the media is so huge! so changing any names in the guidebooks is just another form of lame internal censorship and caving in to the requrements of publishers.

sold

since you live in boulder what do you care about here? second- who the fuck is anybody to tell me what to do?

now that's an idea- NOT. stupid, stupid, stupid. WTF is this with people have problem with bolting. can put natural pro, use natural pro. if you can't bolt. Where is a problem? I don't need some wanna be fachkomision (term used in DDR sandstones) to tell me what to do. people get over yourself. there is plenty of rock, for both. By the way, it's hardly any forum for this sort of thing. This site is used 99% for spray only, so your post should be considered as such. hands up how many people on this bb put up a new route in the past year? And how many new routes in washington were there period? Now, since the answers to my 2 questions are rather obvious, don't get your panties all bunched up, go climbing, enjoy yourself, spray if you need to ( after all you live in spray central now), but don't come up with stupid ideas about regulating climbing.

no fucking way. have you heard "freedon of speach"? EVERYONE has a right to an opinion. treat his anti- bolt spew as such- opinion. by the way- at least he belives in something....

anorak (wild things), sypatex, med, black. used maybe 10 times, need to sell pronto. $100 and if you're outside of bellingham u pay shipping cost. this is a really good deal. hood works good with helmet. need money. my email: muscletx@yahoo.com

hey all of the spray masters. words- action=zilch new routes list to be done: 1 There is an awsome splitter on East Face of Chiante Spire, would share the last pitch with Rebel Yell 2.It's obvoius to me someone should do North and East Face of Mt Triumph 3.N. Face of Mt Peris- there are 2 obvious ice routes in winter 4.Mt Jofree NE Face in winter (none of the routes on the sides of the face count) 5. Someone please straighten out Eve Dearborn memorial route on index through the ice falls? 6. Link-up of Rouch route on Pyramid and Watussi Rodeo on Colonial Pk. 7. new route to the right of "It ain't over motherfuckers".- it will go at moderate grade. my advice- don't pray, but train. *** hey, re#1. right in the center of the face there is a rap anchor for rebel yell (slings on a horn, on white rock). nelson desribes there is traverse from there to the 4" crack (pitch 1). directly above this there is an awsome 2-3" splitter, which becomes a wide falre/chimney at the end. from there just the series of flakes would lead in 2 pitches to the last pitch of rebel yell. i don't think i'll have time to do it before this winter and since i am not a selfish bastard i am puting it out there for you guys to go tthere and nail it. no crampons required to reach the base- we went in tennies 2 weeks ago. ciao

wtf? don't you know anyone who can call for you from your place? think.....sunshine, good wine and topless french chicks....

france or italy. well, maybe sandstones near Teplice in Czech republic. anything else would be a waste of your time. oh maybe canadian rockies?

John I agree 100%. This is exacly about picking the right fight. The way i see it there is a major flaw with Access Fund policy, They still think there is going to be a major battle on access. FS/NPS/ SPS knows they are not going to win a major battle on many fronts. That's why they slowly chip away, one by one, area after area. I think the tragedy is that the biggest places, like Yosemite, Gunks and such will be left out. There is no threat to Smith ( I know they were trying to fine Watts in 97). But everything else in between will be gone, Caves, Cave rock, bouldering in N Carolina and many others. Then they will say- you have places to climb..... Nost effected areas are these rare gems, where a few people were venturing. Hidden Forest was the greatest place in N America. End even though there were bolts, the climbing was adventorous, often run- out, after a few hours of climbing you felt like you were in a bar brawl- all scraped up and dead tired. FS should not tell us how to protect while climbing. They know nothing about it. You are right, we might squable aver ethics. The truth is it's all about estetics. The real impact are open pit mining, clearcuts, millions of miles of roads cut through the forest areas.

I don't think closing down areas is the answer, nor do I deny that I clip bolts. However, I do see a disturbing trend where climbers, as a community, feel "no/low-impact" doesn't apply to them. That's all. we all have impact to some degree- you take a shit, don't you? the point is there was a deal, we as climbers kept out end and we were shafted from behind by the other side. hence my ass is still sore, since they did not use vaseline . We were taking to FS way before Lary King started getting involved and till then they did not care. as the matter of fact i haven't seen a single FS employee in these caves for years. Now I am sure a gate drilled into rock is smaller visual impact then some chalk and few bolts, how is that for a logic? I did spent substantial number of days in these places, so I am talking from my own experience

I am a well rounded punter

If it's the same stuff as what's down in the Lower Gorge, it seems for a long time now. Do I agree with the closure...dunno - I haven't been down there. Can I understand their argument? Absolutely. Chalked up climbing areas are an eyesore - the boulders in Leavenworth are one example. At least in those areas the chalk has a chance of being washed away with rain. I still take issue with your notion that climbers must stand next to a fat beer bellied snowmobiler fighting for his right to highpoint any slope he wants to ok, so you haven't seen the place up close, you haven't been in there, but you can agree withan absurd arbitrary decission. Winter of 92/93 was particularly snowy in Central Oregon. After a snow melted there wasn't a single chalk mark in that rock. It stayed black (of course a natural color for basalt can't compare flow in lower gorge and the caves. Read some geology and then we can talk.

Darryl, I have to figure out what I am going to do for work in the next couple of months. and where I am going to live as my current situation is rather unclear. What I would like to see is a change of strategy with Access Fund. I don't think current "nice guy- let's negotiate" approach works. The whole issue of Central Oregon caves was one of the reasons I moved out of the area. I think in general it is more of a nation wide issue and according steps should be taken. I belive it is a job for someone with really good legal background, who can stand their own in a room full of hostile looks.

mattp, i think i answered your question. I am just a user of both schools. I don't go alpine climbing witha bolt kit. But why is it such a problem for traditionalists to accept sport climbing?

oh my! F8, what a photo. So since when is basalt black? The only reason you can see chalk like that is the years of tire burning at the entrance to the cave. So how about powerwashing of the surface and seeing if you still can see a chalk then? funny story, as we were walking through Hidden Forest cave Lary King was pinting to all this visual impact. As the matter of fact most of what he was pointing was sulphur deposits and bird guano , he even didn't point climbing routes

what I mean was. Have you ever rapelled? have you ever left gear behind. I think it should be a FA decission how to protect a climb. I think ( as many others) that you are missing the point. It shouldn't be up to land managers to decide weather you can put a bolt, a piton, a stoper or an ice screw. Last winter we went and put up a pretty cool alpine route on quite big face. we didn't have a bolt kit. But i also clipped some vast number of bolts in my 23 years of climbing. I think both styles are valid and can coexist. But please don't play this hollier then thou, because i don't buy it. back to the discussion, so what can we do as far as the threat of access shutdown?

Winer, you're full of it. I don't know the count in Cave Rock NV, bot I can assure you there were no 400 bolts at caves in Cenral Oregon. Mind that Cave Rock was about half the size of Hidden Forest cave, so whare are your numbers from? Larry King during his so called "survey" was trying to prove that there were about 300 bolts- even FS officals loughed at that number. during the meetings a figure of roughly 150 was established. More - they all were placed on lead, ground up! They were logical lines, no grid bolting of some "might go" projects. Now before you get you panties in a bunch I ask you a question. Have you ever climbed in any of these areas? if not you're out of your element. Just one last comment. How come bolting is only an issue to the "sucky" low end climbers? How come people like Tackle, Swenson, Howse, Twight, Hubers accept things as they are and don't pull this judgmental shit on others? Since you never answered my question about YOUR climbing ability, I think you're just blowing smoke on this issue. remember words- action= zilch

Tim, I spent some hours back then dealing with that issue, knowing perfectly well, that the outcome of the debate will have effect reaching way farther then Central Oregon Caves. This is very disheartning process seeing what happen at the end. Even though the secenerails might have a different look from outside they they are identical. This is my personal observation on this whole subject matter. the scenario is to suspend access to the area, get people out and with the passage of time make ruling according to your liking. No protests then since no people are around. The policies of FS or Park Service are not determined during so called "public hearing" phase. They are determined during lobbying before the hearings. These hearings are just the motions they have to go through to pretent they make a legit ruling. By the time public hearings happen the policies are determined and their minds are made up. Hence the approach of Access Fund will never work. You can try to reason and argue your point to the audiens, who is WILLING to listen. In the case of FS and PS they don't listen. There are only 2 things any land management agency employee cares about. Number one is job security. Number two is that the job is not a pain in the ass. Climbing is a major pain in the ass- period. This is how our legal system is structured. Strangely the land owner/ manager is always legally responsible for any accidents on thir property. So a lot of lobbying powers use this to their advantage. Climbing is still viewed as a fringe activity done by a couple of psychos. That's why i said we should seek support from such users like snowmobillers and such. They have a very simmilar access problem as we do. I personally don't like dirt bikers, snowmobillers zooming right past me. But I view it that they have as much right to do what they do as much as we have a right to climb. I know for a lot of you climbers it will seem on a radical side, but stop for a second and think. The land managers rules have the same affect on them as on us. I now, i know. a lot of people would rather see noone else in the area they go to. The fact of the matter is you have as much right to be there as they do. Maybe we should remove all the roads, just walk everywhere, live on farms and on and on and on...... accept it we all have impact on the ouside world. we take a shit, we drive a car and we drink beer (yes beer making creates pollution too).