Dane

Grivel parts and gear are still easily available in the US and Canada through local dealers. I and others haev recently ordered and recieved crampon parts and spare picks.

I've used all three. Like the Aztarex the best, assume that is the one you intended. All good tools but if self arrest is a priority stick to the BD tool with a classic pick. The Aztarex will climb most anything as will the Grivel.

Fair enough...my words so I'll do my best, not taking it personally at all. Let me back up a bit and see if I can better explain why I think this is such a good pack for me. If you have similar requirements it might well be a good pack for you. If not there are dozens of similar size packs being made. Just not "similar" packs. Here is what I am looking for in a climbing pack and what this pack was specifically designed for. First and formost I want a pack to climb in. Be it jugging, or climbing hard rock/mixed or ice as a second. (pic your own grade here) I want to be able to solo with this pack at my own limits and when pressed, easily drop it and rig it for hauling even mid pitch. If pressed I want to be able to stand in it at a hanging bivi and not worry about blowing up the pack. If I am going to haul it I don't want anything hanging up. I'd pull the straps if I could (next version I will be able to) It also need the pack to make it through more than one climb with all that abuse and come back for more with no repairs or second guessing. Has to carry 2 one liter bottles in the top pocket and still have some room. Key hook and a small under lid pocket for trivial stuff like a head lamp or two is good. I want a removeable bivy pad...I may not remove it but at least I can empty the pack and sleep on it if required. If I have the luxury of pulling the pad and actually laying down better yet. It needs to carry a full two or three days worth of alpine kit even if it is with some effort. The lid and the dbl rope straps make that work. A extendable lid and a small skirt would be even better (next version as well). I never want to strap anything to the outside of the pack....no matter how it is done you risk loosing what ever you strap on the outside and if you have to climb (which often happens) with that stuff on the outside of the pack it will always be a bother. Easier to do with a bigger pack. But smaller packs limit what you take and how well you'll climb. Getting everything inside, including crampons and axes is a lot easier and safer than you might first imagine. I don't use a crampon bag but do use a screw bag and BD pic covers. Here is a typical list of what I might carry although less is always better: two tools (alpine with at least one spike) harness 1/2 harware/pins/cams,screws, biners, runners helmet lwt bag bivy jacket bivy tent or bag spare gloves/hat stove-pot and fuel cans food 1/2 rope Most importantly the pack needs to fit your back. Straps needs to fit your shoulders. The waist belt and sternum straps have to be in the right places and be the right sizes to go under the gear and harness. It is the only way you can comfortably carry the weight required. Never met Randy Radcliff who hand sews each and every CCW pack. But I know his reputation and climbs. He has done as much serious alpine climbing as most. His vision is similar to mine but I don't have to sell the packs so I can get by with having only what I think is required. Nothing more, nothing less. I would have paid dbl the amount that I was billed for this pack. After all it just made two of my new 30l packs absolete. I could have saved $295. plus shipping and tax! Few pack makers have that background in use and design. Most anything will work for climbing Outer Space or something like it. I don't take packs on climbs like that. Didn't on the longer free routes in the valley either. I would for a two day trip up Half Dome or El Cap. I do generally take a pack on Canadian ice. Anything happens and the sun goes down there things can get serious fast. Although this pack is designed for hard alpine climbing it is nice that it can easily be used for cragging as well. I like knowing that you would have to work really hard to wear this pack out. My last one lasted a long time. But I could easily wear out my BD Speed or the Arcteryx Khazri in a few trips if I treated them the same as I will the CCW. Other packs I have tried either didn't fit or the workmanship so shoddy I would not trust them for even a day trip to the crags. A life time warrenty is only good if the pack holds up long enough to get it back to the store. And finally if you need tool attachments, a crampon pouch or a lighter material easy enough to order a pack made exactly the way you want it built.

Jmace not trying to convince anyone. Just want to make sure others know it is available. Either you recognize the value of this style of pack or you don't. I've gone through a lot of packs to end up here. I haven't had an issue poking holes in things no matter how badly I pack. Less, is often more, YMMV of course. But you are right my custom Ozone is not a pack for simple MULTI PITCH ROCK climbs which is what the thread requested. The basic Ozone would be a better solution. You calling an Ozone expensive at $95? When the comparable BD Speed 30l is $120 and the Arcteryx Khazri 35 is $175? My custom Ozone was $124.00 delivered! Everyone seems to want the lightest pack made....not a big deal to me...I want a pack that will last a few seasons. Few extra .oz and a perfect fit to accomplish that are worth the effort to me.

There is a reason I have posted this "everywhere". Really good climbing packs are hard to find. If you have the need the price, design and materials are right on this one. The CCW pack isn't as simple as it looks. Tools can either go in the pack...it is good bit deeper than 50 cm. Or you can lay them across the pack top and use the two straps there to lash them down. Crampons and a rope go there too when required, helmet just under them. The two "rope" straps easily hold everything in place. Lid goes over that. Trick to a 30/35L pack is it is just big enough to get everything into while walking in to an overnight alpine climb, while still small enough to drop the lid into and have something managable for the second on hard climbing. Or in this case a bag clean for hauling as well. Same pack works well for rock like Libery Bell, WA Column, Half Dome or just a day cragging. If you are only doing a few pitches of ice or rock you don't need a pack. But if you need 2 liters of water, a belay jacket or two, head lamps, extra gloves, tat for the raps and some food the size works well going in and out and most importantly on the climb. As many miles as I have put on a pack of this style with boots and crampons, I've put many more with the same pack and a set of rock gear while wearing runners. I've had a good many packs over the years and this is the size I have used the most. Used it as carry on luggage, hauled it up Libery Bell, lugged it around Pashastin many times and is the sack of choice for Canadian Alpine. Here are the features I like on this pack. Starting with the fact the size was actually hand made to fit me. 30L ballistic cloth for durability pack cloth collar to seal bag when required. Back pad is a removeable folded foam pad in a zippered pouch 2 liter plus a bit on the top pocket Top pocket easily drops into main compartment for climbing and keeps the 2L of water/weight closer to back. Top lid is held down by one fastex buckle top lid has elastic on the siders to seal the pack small zippered pocket with key latch under lid dbl rope straps on top of main bag nicely curved and well padded shoulder straps well positioned chest strap usable waist strapwith small supportive wings

I have a few extra copies that I would like to trade for other issues. I have Mtn #15, 32, 33, 53, 119. Need most anything 1 thru 28 or past 122. CAJ I have '77, 81 , 94, 95, 97, 98. Most interested in trading. Send me an email.

I have a few extra copies that I would like to trade for other issues. I have Mtn #15, 32, 33, 53, 119. Need most anything 1 thru 28 or past 122. CAJ I have '77, 81 , 94, 95, 97, 98. Most interested in trading. Send me an email.

No way they'll gate the main road. Too many duck hunters all winter using the boat ramp.

Randy @ CCW made me up a custom Ozone made specifically for the second's sack on ice and alpine. Comes in actual sizes that fit. Cold Cold World's sewing and materials are impecable. Truely old world traditional craftsmanship and design with no need for excuses as Randy sews up each and every pack himself. Been using my Ozone all winter and am very pleased. Mine is a bit longer in the body but just big enough for a moderate, over night Canadian winter climb if you go light and climb fast. Lid (which takes 2 one liter bottles) is stuffed in the pack in the picture. Not a pack you'll likely wear out even when used as a haul bag on rock.

The perfect second's pack on Canadian water ice

"I don't hold the route in as high regard" Good reason for that...we simple didn't climb the same route, or have even remotely similar conditions.

Trip: Ice fields Parkway - steep ice Date: 3/23/2009 Trip Report: Quick 3 day, 2000+ mile trip to the Rockies for 6 short pitches of steep ice. Follow the line... Right side of Weeping wall..plebeian these days, I already know. Jack in a unusual position...following. Jack Roberts still laughing and still climbing hard! Curtain Call and stunning position. climbing in the wild and overhanging califlower ice mid climb. Gear Notes: Soft spring waterfall ice...so longer screws. Approach Notes: Lots of snow, wind and rain so short walks to avoid the avi danger

Actually I think this thread needs to stay. Bunch of things pointed out in this thread including the maturity of all those involved. Fact is, kids...are kids. How and when you choose to climb with a minor or interact with them in any manner is your choice. All kids (and we were all a kid once) want to be treated as adults when it suits them. Most grown ups want to be treated like kids...when it suits them. Nothing new here. Between this thread and Braydon's last "sponsorship thread" there is pleanty of food for thought. My take on it? If you want to get any climbing done, stay off the Internet.

Nothing will protect you from litigation. But the more informed both parties are the better chances of you avoiding or assuming any liability that you shouldn't be responsible for and the flip side, where everyone actually takes rsponsibility for themselves and their own actions. But with a minor/adult relationship you have an obvious disparity of responsibility in the general public's eyes...or the so called "common man". Adult = responsible. Minor = not responsible You and your attorney's first job as a defendant will be to educate your jury as to what are the industry standards and why what you did is a common and finally what you were doing was "safe" within those guidelines. Depending on conditions and experience the S. side of Hood might well be resonable where the North side of Rainier in winter might not be. As the level of risk goes up the burden of liability would generally fall back to the most experienced people in the party. First question I'd ask, "Is it safe for a 12 year Jonny to climb the Terminator as his first ice climb with Daniel the ice climber with 20 years experience on WI8." Most average joe blows, in the jury would say...."no". Things aren't going to get any better from there. What ever you do it needs to past the smell test...."what would the "common man" see as resonable under the circumstances". Most won't appreciate climbing in any form as reasonable.

Been a topic at my house this year about Braydon (who I have climbed with) and Marc (who I have not climbed with). With a background in guiding internationally and a formal education in recreation a lot would be laid at my feet if an accident occured in my party no matter what age of those involved or the circumstances. If there is an injury or loss our society generally looks to be reimbursed financially for that loss. So while people my think their families would never sue....if you aren't around who knows what the survivors will actually do. (or their pain and suffering) All it takes is a lawyer willing to be involved. The more you have finanacially the more likely you are to be sued in any venue. 18 year olds are generally by definition NOT RESPONSIBLE for themselves in the USA. You can figure where that leaves you climbing with one. The closer you are to the minor's age the better I suspect in relationship to being held responsible for the outcome of any accident. All that said a good liability waiver signed by the minor's parents or guardian along with a frank discussion on the dangers of climbing and the current goals would be a good thing to do imo.

Good enough..thanks Craig. Dave agreed with you as well. "Yep, exactly right. At the end of the first headwall pitch I went up over the snow arete into the right hand couloir option and made a belay with some cams on the right hand wall. That is where John's little piggies started to freeze as I scooted up the easy snow to the base of the 2nd mixed pitch." Thanks guys, I'll edit out my misinformation above. BIG thanks to Dave, Daniel, John and Craig for helping me sort this all out in my own mind. I hope this tiny bit of info helps others that want to get on the route. I'll be back time and again. When it is in good condition, a line well worth the effort!

I have obviously missed the bit of snow and the tiny arete where the routes join, between the upper and lower mixed pitches of the left hand route. Dave sent me a good topo that points that out. Couple of comments in the original TRs made me wonder what routes people really did. Ade: "Several of the steps lower on the route had melted out and were running with water. The final pitch had a reasonable amount of ice but it was very wet and delaminating. I wouldn't even give it an M grade in those conditions, it was more like thin ice climbing on poorly adhered wet ice." Dane: The "final pitch" of what we did is more like 300+ feet long, so more like TWO final pitches unless they were useng a 300' rope. Although we made it one pitch by climbing most of it together, which was "entertaining" at the time, but not something either of us had plannned on or really wanted to do. Craig's (Alpine Monkey): "John, your pictures don't do the route justice. Those last two pitches are a little spicey, don't you say? We brought 5 cams (.4 to 3, used em all), 3 blades (used), 2 baby angles (didnt use), 5 nuts (I placed one), and two shorty screws (completely pointless). Lots of fun, very good route." "That traverse you mention was hard, but I had a good piece in. I was more scared on the 2nd pitch." jashamster: "On Saturday we placed exactly two cams on lead. A few other cams were nice for the two belays we set up. Took blades, didn't use. Not enough ice for screws." Coldiron: "Yes, I thought the pro looked pretty decent, particularly with stubby screws for the steep ice. I also saw lots of placements for small cams(esp. C3 or TCU 000-1, and KB's." Dane: "John Frieh mentioned to me from his climb, "The M5 is easy too... more like M4." On our ascent I found two places got my attention while following, the beginning and the end of the upper headwall gully because of the lack of ice. In between those two points something more like WI 2+ or 3 and M3. Mixed grades are suppose to relate to rock. M3 being 5.7, M4 being 5.8 and M5 being 5.9. Obviously top roped, parts of it felt like 5.9 or M5 to me." "Pro wasn't that easy to attain on our ascent and most that lead at a 5.7 level would have had their hands full in the upper gully." All that said it is obvious to me now there is at least two distinct routes to start the upper "headwall" of the NE Couloir, right side and left side. Not all that easy to see in this smaller version but the gully we climbed is hidden just above and left of Craig in the picture. Climb to the end of the snow on the left and if there is a decent amount of ice spilling over it, the gully suddenly appears. The start is a very obvious over hanging corner off a snow belay with decent anchors. You'll generally be climbing steep snow to this anchor. That pitch is steep and looks like this from the belay....with no extra camera tilt. Not a pitch you'd likely forget. Easy enough to see the change of direction between our picture where we went left of the rock island at the top of the gully and Ade's picture where they went right at the rock island and ontothe easier snow slopes above. Above the initial gully entrance you get a tight gully that breaks out on to a little arete and changes over to the right hand gully and a small snow field. The YouTube video shows this section clearly. The gully above again tightens down and gets more difficult as you progress. It finally opening a bit at the end becoming almost a face while stil following a vertical crack and flake system. The ending is a distinct horizontal flat. I hooked both tools there, standing on rock with monopoints and peeked over, onto a easy angled snow slope with Craig comfortably sitting in belay. The traverse on the North face and a bit more climbing gets you to the rappel boulder and down the south side gully. The climbing is every bit as spectacular as it looks. (wet or dry I suspect) Any less snow or ice when we were on it and we'd been rock climbing. Awesome mixed in the conditions we had. Snow slog for the most part in the lower gully with a few short ice/mixed steps ending in some steep (55+) snow. Daniel and Dave's pictures. N side traverse and up to the rap boulder and decent gully Here is the line I believe we took @ M4 AI2+/3. The tight corner is right facing and not easy to identify in this picture on the lower half. As the face widens and changes exposure you can more clearly see where we finshed in the picture. Either way a fun adventure! Anyone have a reference for the first ascent of the left hand line in winter or for that matter since it isn't the obvious summer line...that referenece as well?

Any one care to draw a line where their climb went though the upper portion of the gully?

Grant that is a bad deal....best wishes on a quick recovery. Always glad to hear that it is something "minor". Did you do Asteroid or A-strain?

Little sick dick is good for ya, and who knows, some hot moms out there. Point is ya gotta be alive to smoke a doobie or get a piece ass. Hanging out above 6000 meters lessens those opportunities.

What up Pink...you need a "guide" for this stuff??

Looking for detailed pictures and line drawing topos and personal descriptions of the route climbed (pitch by pitch) for the upper part of the NE Coulior on Dragonatail. Distant and on route pics appreciated. Something like 10 parties climbed in in Nov and Dec. Must be some good photos to share. I'm working on an info piece for Dragontail and will share the topos, pictures and info with all involved, obviously giving credit to any contributions. These are the perspectives and area I am most interested in. But anything in the upper gully/headwall or in the area just before breaking out of the gully on to the north face would be appreciated. Any pictures on the traverse? Thanks! This is an enhanced and cropped version of a picture originally taken by Ade of the upper gully and headwall.

Thought about that myself as the last one I went to was in NYC. But this is Seattle and @ the Redhook. We're all cliimbers, how dressed do ya think they'll be

Dude that seems a little skewed. "first" and guided ascents work for the blind, the dude with no legs, male lesbian bipolar dwarfs and when you're pushing 83 and never climbed... Instead how about using that $7000+ guide's and travel costs per person to get some real climbing done on your own all the while building your skills and experience level, then pick objectives you might have a reasonable chance to actually get up by yourself and then ride your bike to the mtn and back. Try an alpine ascent with a team of two carrying what you need on your own back...heard it is the new rage in climbing. Easy for you to say and me too. A 15 year old wants to stand in front of a bus with his eyes closed I think we are all responsible to speak up. Reality in the big mtns even for the very skilled. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/05/0515_020515_bearzi.html How much climbing can you do with $15,400 in US dollars? That is your GUIDE's fees for the Pumori trip. $6700 a piece PLUS another $1000 each, easy, getting to Katmandu and back from CONUS. Canada for a week in winter at less than $500 a trip. Chamonix for 10 days...cost less than $1800. round trip. Typical Denali trip for a month these days....under $2000. Pumori is a very cool mtn... what ever you do, best of luck and have fun at it! How about some real climbing stoke!

Hopefully some here with a 15 year old in the house will give their thoughts. But this one is a biggy for me. By any standard I climbed hard in my youth...20 to 40 if you can call it youth @ 40. I don't have a big list like Twight but sadly I do have a list. Of all my buddies that aren't around because of mistakes in the mountains....I've now lived almost twice as long as most were alive. Sad, sometimes I think of them when I am having a good meal, a bottle of wine or a awesome climb....easy or not or just an amazing vista (or ass) I know they would have appreciated. And the dumb bastards...said with all due respect...all climbed better than me. But I am the one still out and ticking off climbs. This shit just aint fair which we should all rememebr from time to time. One stupid mistake and the rest of your life is gone in a second. Chances of that happening at 7000m is too high imo @ 15. Not everyone has someone like JR, that cares more about you than they do their own life, to shadow you up and down the mtn. That you can't pay for.