Dane

Any shoe that deforms your foot in use, if used long term cause abonormalities in your feet. Rock shoes (shoes in general) as a whole are a big design flaw for your feet Finding a shoe that now fits your old, less elastic, deformed feet doesn't make it a shoe that will keep you going another 20 years!

The sweater weight jacket. Done right it is an interesting theory and use of materials.

What kind of cool-aid are you drinking. Public property and public EMPLOYEES paid for by our taxes. Which btw is why WA state has some the most expensive gasoline in the nation. If you need to blow things up for the greater good...producing easy to see signage and a reasonable notification system is appropriate.

Ace is more comparable to the Kauk in flex than the Ballet fwiw. Ballet is pretty stiff when compared to the Kauk. I have to disagree Bill. Some of the best shoes from the '90s were/are still great shoes. Ace, early and later Ballets, Syncros, Kauks are not going to hold anyone back as an all around shoe. All of them seemed to me to have some distinct advantages over any of the slipper style shoes then or now. But obviously not to everyone's taste these days. And as this thread shows, lots of good shoes being made now as well. And like any shoe, the real issue is always fit.

Seems they are not effective enough and a sign at the pass would be in order and while they are at it a siren wouldn't hurt to avoid what will eventually happen.

After using a half bag for a few years I always thought a lwt full length bag was more efficient heat and weight wise and made more sense as bivy gear.

http://www.wintercreekbandb.com/ We've stayed here. Climber friendly and very close to the access and trail head if you have a car. Tell Bill "hi"

I have done both climbing (30+ hr events) and in races, up to dbl centuries on the bike and IM length tris (all stuff under 16/18 hrs). Talk to the other guys that have and you'll find everyone is different. No way I can do one every 30 minutes no matter the level of effort I am at. One an hr works for me depending on pace or 1 maybe 2 every 1.5 hrs. typically climbing keeps me happy. Twight is/was an alien fitness wise. I can't go at a pace (even in a race) to require 1 Gu an hr. I have no doubt Twight still can even in the mtns and I out weight Mark by 30# easy. I agree, most don't eat soon enough or often enough which will cause extreme swings in the blood sugar level. Good nutrtion just helps us poorly trained noobs do better Much of Mark's writings on nutrition will be well suplimented by the endurance training info published by Joe Freil and his co authors.

No arguement from me. Gu specifically is a poor choice as the only nutrition for a sustained effort. Other synthetics may not be depending on their specific menu blend of ingredients and how your body personally tolerates them. Gu and other SIMILAR synthetics are generally short term duration foods up to half distance Tris or say 5 or 6 hrs. But not all synthetics are just simple sugars. Past that, iron distance events, dbl century or longer bike rides for example, normal foods, things like, boiled potatoes, bagels, fruit and sandwiches are generally the choices of those involved. Most will physically tolerate them better. The reason is the tempo is slower and endurance more important that the "faster" events of something that is less than 1/2 the time generally. Slower tempos allow you to digest "normal" foods. But everyone is different and the combination of the synthetic to real food involved gets more important as the time involved and/or tempo decreases or increases. Most will have found a combination that will work for you specifically by the time you get to the 5+ hr races, events or climbs. And most find that the biggest barrier to break while racing long events is keeping track of your nutrition without a pre packaged synthetic. How does this all relate to climbing? Sandwiches and boiled potatoes freeze generally if you are in the mountains but not always. So again you have to be careful on how you pick and choose. Gu and similar simple sugar based products DO "jack your blood sugar around". What you ingest with them them and how often is one key to using them to your advantage. But the synthetic type foods are also one of the few food items that doesn't freeze on a cold climb. Big advantage in the mtns when required. Think 60hrs on the Solvak for Twight, House and Backes. A real "race" tempo and cold weather. Perfect place for GU "like" nutrition. Go back to the basics and you'll realise that you have two to four hrs of glycogen storage while working at a hard pace. Either keep that tank full by slowing down or learn to refill it on the move. Once empty it is a bitch to refill. The longer your "event", the slower your required pace/tempo are and the less likely you are to empty the glycogen tank with even moderate knowledgeand attention to nutrition. It is all a matter of degree. Think of what it takes to do the N. Face of Chair C2C in a 16hr day and what it takes to do the same climb, same conditions in 4 hrs C2C. 8 days on the Slovak or 60 hrs there? Hydration and nutrition requirements are different, as are the clothing. Think your 5k pace compared to your marathon pace.

"I was thinking the same..., but this is a protein/carbs/fat mix as opposed to just amino acids and maltodextrin thats in Gu." When I wrote "they" have all sorts of variations, the protien /carbs/fats were the additional combos over the more well know Gu. So many of them (combos and brands) available now that at any given big race you'd be surprized by the many different vendors. What is useful all depends on what your gut can handle and in what combo if it will work for you. Pretty much anyone who does an endurance sport seriously under a clock uses one form or another.

Gu.......by a differnt name. Bike/Tri/endurance racers have all sorts of variations these days.

Arcteryx has a new one coming call the Atom "something"...basically a Atom LT without the side vents. Still sweater weight and packs really small into its own pocket like the Atom lt.

We were there but we didn't blow up nut'in no matter what he sez Would we be so proud as to show our faces for such a nafarious crime? Besides we live in Twist and have pleanty of stuff over here to blow up.

Vario? Everything I have with me stays on winter or summer. Always with at least a super thin foam pad. More the better. Here is another choice of for a lwt bag but Primaloft synthetic. http://www.integraldesigns.com/product_detail.cfm?id=718&CFID=7378347&CFTOKEN=43005992

Too bad you are done. Grape Ape...easy 5.8 hand crack at Dishman, Spokane WA....30 year old 5.8 trad route....bolted/chopped and rebolted with twice the number of bolts. One every 6 feet last I looked. 6 in this 30' or less of rock with a perfect crack right beside them. Oh and Air Roof didn't "need" a set of fixed anchors. Gear worked just fine there for YEARs. Hate to actually have to climb the crack, clean it and then walk down.

http://huntingtonsouthface.blogspot.com/

Obviously some missed the sarcasm. 105mm shells last I looked were expensive. Signage isn't. Avi control guys don't generally just roll out the big guns, bombs or avi lauchers for fun. People keep track of that stuff and it isn't usually the same guys who get to play with it. Control work is suppose to be a public safety issue on the highway or in a ski area, based on current forcasts. You just don't just walk away and come back tomorrow (or in this case 3 days later!) if your forcast says you'll have big slides and you need to shoot now. You get paid to "solve" those issues with as little damage as possible. You are suppose to post easily seen and understood signs, you then physically clear the area if required and then proceed to blow shit up. Anyone gives you a hard time, like ignoring signs, you address accordingly. Complaining about it in the news paper and 2nd hand on the internet sounds like they are looking for a budget windfall or someone was just our playing with the toys and wanted to finish off this year's ammo allotment. Simply because if it was important enough the guys would have hung around, cleared the area and did the control work. Instead they, "pack up the howitzer and drive back to Twisp". Nice...on so many levels

Absolutely Free is a great 5.9...couple of ways to do it as well. The Doggie climbs Diversions/Diviations and Lancelot are as very good but not multi pitch.. You get three pitches on Reeds. Commissioneers Buttress, Pos. 4th Street come to mind as well. Rad already mentioned Braille Book. Grack and Mr. Natural are short ones on the Apron, both way fun one easy one hard. Something that is fun but some aid is a quick trip (easy one day) of the s face of the column. Easier and resonably long is Arrowhead Arête. Here is some recent beta (not mine) off Rixon's which is one of my favorites..and better than it sounds. Mostly 5.9/.10a. p1 was challenging, with the crack a bit too thin for solid fingerlocks.It took good wired stoppers for pro, though, and once I committed to using my feet it was not too desperate (5.9). p2 had the famous 5.10c long reach or "cartwheel move" to traverse to the right crack. I took one hang when I could not make the reach my first try. I went back to the corner, and tried it with my left foot on the smaller right foothold, which gained me a little more distance but not enough to make a solid reach. So I told Chris to watch me and I lunged for the hand jam, which worked just fine. I ran it out up the easy crack to the belay, so I could belay to the left and give Chris a proper overhead belay for the crux. Chris is 5'3" and was able to reach her foot over to the flake, but couldn't set up for a lunge, so she made 2 solid attempts, but fell twice and then left it for another day. p3 is the fun low angle crack to the undercling - no problems. p4 is a steeper face with a couple of fixed pins, which I have always thought of as the "Gunks simulator". It had a fun reach left from a big pocket to a flake which I had forgotten about. Chris took a couple of falls on the last part of this pitch, which is a left-leaning corner which is a combination lieback and jam. p5 has a brief but intense slightly overhanging corner hand crack that I remembered well. Chris had a couple of hangs on it, which I explained had happened to all my other partners on it in the past!

Which reminds me. All that water makes the Devils bath tubb (by Serenity) something not to be missed late in the day. Visuals can be stunning Kinda like this.

Central Pillar on Middle is likely as busy as Nutcracker. But well worth it as is East But of Middle. West Face of Rixons and the Good Book are excellent as well. Serenity and Sons is a must do. Snake Dike worth the walk over RArches which is a good solo as well. Best advice on Nutcraker has already been said..solo it by the 5.9 crack start. Spend some time at Sunny side bench and do Jam crack, Bummer, Lazy Bum and then Bishop's Terrace. All of Reeds and Lunatic Fringe are also short must does down the Valley. List can go on forever of "must does". Tough part about Yosemite is wanting to do everything you have done before plus all the new stuff every trip. Have a great trip!

Generally the sox lasted shoes are slipper like. The Scarpa Techno is getting close to a cross over from sox to board lasted support. Obviously a huge difference between the Katana lace up or the TC pro's lasts and fit. Lots of input here on current slipper technology shoes but they are not really trad shoes by the generally accepted historical definition. No question you can use any shoe on trad routes and many will then pull their shoes off at the end of every pitch. Wear a good board lasted shoe super tight as I have done and you'll still want to pull it off on long routes and rest your feet. I find the comments below on true board last shoes interesting in that same historical perspective. Obviously they are not shoe designs in vogue and you won't see them in the gym. The slipper shoes were born in the Gym and originally designed for trianing to make your feet stronger. "The ACE is a medium stiff, all-around, lightweight low cut shoe equally competent climbing micro-edges, thin cracks and steep friction slabs. The ACE has probably been used to put up more hard crack climbs in Yosemite and Joshua Tree than any other shoe. It is a favorite of trad climbers for its versatility and comfort - on routes ranging from one pitch crag climbs to do-it-in-a-day Grade V's and VI's. Board lasted for super support" "Hans' Florine choose this shoe for his record ascent of the Nose on El Capitan - check out Masters of Stone VI for the beta! The BALLET is one of the classics and one of the few meticulously hand made, board lasted climbing shoes! Ankle high cut gives extra support for technical edging and protection in ankle eating fist and off-width cracks." "Ask the man who's put more time in free climbing El Cap routes - Tommy Caldwell - and he'll tell you this is "his shoe". The TC Pro was designed to be his versatile weapon for all day, all kind climbing. " Worth pausing to think why Caldwell put his name on this particular shoe and how hard he is climbing and has for years. There is a reason all three of these shoes look very similar. One of the things I agree with is technique goes a long ways on shoe will work for you. Slipper thin shoes that slot your big toe into thin cracks can be an advantage on thin finger cracks. Sometimes a huge advantage. But the older style board lasted shoes will climb them easily as well you just use different techniques. Rand smears become a way of life as do rand torques and the extra support offers more chances to face climb on small holds as well as smear the edges of thin cracks. Coldfinger offers good info as well, "if you really liked the VS for fit go with the Miura". The laces will offer more support than the velcro. Bachar's last trad shoe design which seems a lot like a updated Ace. The Acopa Legend. Croft flashing .13c in '87 in the still available Boreal Ballet. And what the Huber's think is a trad shoe Muira VS i think? All this is just food for thought.

Looks like nothing under a 41 in the country yet or no one bought them which is possible. Which has got to suck either way. Might be worth trying Scarpa direct...but sadly no deals to be had there ;(

Yep, having done control work you either need to shoot or you don't. The guys were idiots for not paying attention to the signs and being on route. And should have been tracked down and cited. But you don't flip a coin on control work. If you think it needs to be shot, you shoot. The idea is public safety trumps public access every time.

Depends on what you want/call a "trad" shoe. Mythos do climb most terrain well but is not a trad shoe in any form. It is a laced slipper. Edging performance depends on how tightly they are fit to support edging or loose for comfort. Mythos stretch generally a full size if you can stand the pain till they do. Most trad shoes are board lasted with a leather or synthetic mid sole. Which is why they will edge so well and offer some comfort and support in cracks. The TC Pro is good as is the Boreal Ace, Equinox, Ballet and the Tradmaster. Same reason many of the old Boreals and Sportiva trad shoes bring high dollars on ebay. Easy to resole and they last almost forever. Lots of support and they climb well. Crertainly not in vogue these days but the Ace rocks for long crack climbs. Not the place many will be using a Mythos. The trick going from a sport shoe to a trad shoe is no longer being on point. It is all about more comfort. Trad shoes should fit with your toes snug, not folded. Lost of examples here: http://www.mtntools.com/cat/rclimb/rshoes/02rshoes.htm

Just curios what day this was...today..Friday morning? Lots of TRs from up there recently.