Dane

Nice work!!!...wooooaaa on the fall That had to be exciting! 3rd pitch? Straight above the climber's right shoulder and finishes on the weird rounded knob of ice shown in your upper picture as the top horizon. Bit of an effort and contrived to have a belay there and finish up the last 100' of ice right of the tree in the gully with tat on it. This is that last pitch taken from the tree rap point with a lot less ice. But literally straight above your climber's right shoulder. Good photos of it in Wayne's video as well. And Wayne following Josh's lead last week.

Not an uncommon problem on first use. On a totally leashelss tool you will find you need much less glove than normal even in the coldest conditions. Nothing will blow your forarms faster than not having a good fit in the lower grip, btdt...and found it kinda scary and totally disheartening to be honest. I wear a solid XL in gloves and use the mid point (there are three) for the bottom pommel on the Nomic. But if I use my thickest cold weather gloves I can't get a full hand into the grip. So I use three fingers in and a finger over the ledge. Not the best use of the tool. One of the worst positions you can put your hand in for strength. My cold weather mittens are similar but actually have a little less bulk and more room so I can get a full grip inside the pommel.. But almost any of the newer lwt gloves work great, fit easily fully into the grip, set at the mid position. When I am doing hard bolted mixed (hafner ck for example) I'll tighten the grip and wear an even thinner glove. Just so I don't have to grip as hard to stay on the tool. Tighter the adjustable grip on the tool is, the lighter the glove, the easier the Nomic is to climb difficult terrain with. If you are coming from any tool besides another fully supported leashless rig takes a bit of use to learn to *hang* (almost like a hand jam on rock) from the tool instead of *grip* (more like a face hold rock climbing) the tool. Two totally different techniques in use. You won't be able to take full advantage of a Nomic until you develope that subtle bit of technique. It is also the Nomic's big advantage over almost any other tool available.

I'm easy to find. So is most any alias here. When did it become a unique concept to actually stand behind what you write or say. Kinda like climbing isn't it? Either sac up and do it, or tuck your tail and bail.

Hey Pete mind giving me a link to that specific quote from KOMO? Thanks!

Nicely done Seattle Mountain Rescue! And to the Bug as well for catching the details and getting out the word asap. You guys put a lot of effort and people into the field today. All of us should keep that in mind and look for ways to help out when we can.

For anyone that saw the KOMO web report earlier in the day or the 5PM KOMO news cast I'd be interested in your take. People bitch all the time here about how the media treats climbing stories. In this case having been there when it all started I hoped for the best but it wasn't looking very good till the guys got a phone call out late this morning. Because I have an intimate connection with KOMO and was feeding them detailed info as it was happening KOMO was able to post good info and followed up with a good story IMO at 5PM. Garbage in and garbage out is the usual situation. In this case thankfully, it all had a happy ending. But what the media told the public was EXACTLY what they were being told. Good for KOMO! We as climbers should rememember that. Great for Dave, Bret and their families!

Met Dave and Bret walking down the trail. Looked a little tired but no worse for the wear Long ass walk out after rapping down the s. side of Chair. But they took care of themselves and walked out under their own power. Good on 'um Stuff like that can happen to anyone, anytime.

one p.m climbers rapped wrong gully and ended up walking to I-90

Knock on wood. Bret and Dave are missing on Chair. Last time I saw them they were two pitches up and looking good. SMR has been at it since the early hours today.

Tour over into Snow lakes looked like perfect snow for skiing to me. Bet they got a new inch or two last night.

The new baby obviously pushed Freih way over the edge

10 climbers on Chair today..regular 3 ring circus. Braydon, you might have more luck if you just show up at the base of the climb around 9am roped up, gear on your harness and an attitude, dude

No need for rock gear right now....this thing would take a screw anywhere. In the last 15 years I've never seen so much ice on this route. For the aspiring alpinists out there you'll never find any better AI2 or any better conditions than right now. And by noon today there is a heck of a boot pack in as well. You know you want to. Go get some! Wayne and Dane on the foggy, windy and cold NF It was 50 degrees in the shade when i left home on Tiger mountain at 9:30 this morning and well below freezing when I started up the face a couple of hrs later.

Some of the points missed I think. Twight suggests synthetic because you use a belay jacket to dry stuff out while you climb. You, your "action suit" and gloves as required get dried in a belay parka. Sometimes two or three pair of gloves on just one climb. No can do with down. People bitched about lack of pockets inside the XV...no need for pockets in a down jacket other than to keep a water bottle from freezing. Alpine climbers don't generally carry water bottles in their parkas. Simply because parka goes on and off a gazillion times during the day and shit falls out of pockets. XV is a great alpine climbing parka in a cold environment. It is good for places you don't end up with a water bottle in your parka and you don't go through 3 pairs of wet gloves in a day. In a belay jacket you want pockets to dry gloves next to your body ....but only if you have a synthetic jacket to dry them in. Down won't dry anything very effectively past under wear and sox and then only over night in your sleeping bag. When you realise how many functions a piece of gear is really required to do, that you have to manage its weight and size on your back, you start to realise what is required for materials, insulations and coatings. It is a system and each environment requires its own system which brings us back to DWR, Gortex, Event and other answers. The better you understand the design process behind each piece of gear the better you can decide what is required for your own use. I buy a 4x4 for off road and a Porsche for illegal public driving or the track and the BMW for the wife's car. There is some cross over on use sure. But a different tool for each specific job. Climbing gear and clothing are extremely complicated designs these days. The more you know about the design and the more critical you can look at your own use the better choices you can make. So back to the DWR verses Event comment for the XV shell. For my use with a down jacket of this weight/warmth I want the most breatable shell possible. I would have excused EB for not using a DWR, Event, Goretex shell fabric and have others in years pass to gain maximum breathability in a jacket of this type. Which I suspect is why EB choose DWR over Event or somthing else. It certainly wasn't price point imo. The big gain is a quality jacket with the warmth/compressability/breathability and lwt weight of down. It works well, as it is, for MY use. It may not work for you.

yes No. Two day trips in the Cascades can have some of the most varible weather on earth. Hard to pack for rain on the trail head and sub zero temps up high. Which is why the stuff in the Cascades seldom gets done in winter. It is like over-grown, exaggerated, Scotland winter climbing with longer approaches and more elevation gain. Most multi week expeditions are simple affairs in comparison. You know what the weather will be like as you gain elevation. Cold and nasty up high generally. You don't generally pack rain gear for the Alaska Range for example unless you are walking/skiing into the range. During the climbing season the Kahiltna air strip at 7K can have some nasty weather anytime, Plaze da Mulas @ 14K not so much. Nepal you might do a good bit of the walk in shorts and a T shirt depending on season. Base camp might be 14 or 17K. You live in cold weather clothing from there on. Rainier I will probably wear t shirt and shorts to Muir in the summer. There I change clothes and wear clothing I can layer up and down a tiny bit but suitable for the weather on the summit. Clothing insulation and water resistance is totally different than what I require in a sleeping bag 98% of the time. I might go really light for clothing knowing I will have a warm bag stuck away to "hide" in. But I might just as well take a really light bag for the temps and just enough clothes to climb fast in knowing full well I'll really suffer at night and at the belays if the climbing is harder than expected. The choices for clothes and bag are defined by the technical difficulties, the expected weather, my fitness (or generally lack of) and what experiences tell you *might* be possible. Bad experiences climbing, teaches you better judgement hopefully. No, you just need to get out more to gain your own experience of what will work for you. Shoveling snow in a XV isn't something I'd generally even think about doing do. Based on my experience even in some really cold temps, I'd put on a tech T shirt and maybe if required, a breathable wind layer, then blast away. Twight's "Extreme Alpinism" covers this conversation pretty well. It is worth the read. http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/

Bag gets Event or something better. Clothing DNR. Different animals entirely. All depends on your use requirements. I don't wear down where it will get wet easily. Down bags always get wet in my environment without a water proof/resistant shell and more importantly a VBL. Down gear's efficiency for my use is most easily negated by condensation from your person (body and mouth), not by water in the outside environment. We used down bags for years in Alaska and S. America with lwt nylon outers and a extremely light weight synthetic over bag with a breathable shell material. A VBL inside would keep them dry for weeks of use with proper management. Down jackets in the same simple lwt outer nylon material stayed dry as well if you magaged your own body temps and jacket storage well.

Rok, I'll have a bunch of Rab gear in the next few reviews, impressive stuff. Montbell is another I'll be focusing on. Rab Microlight Alpine Rab Summit Batura

Ambler is an awesome jacket. EB better? For me yes, but may be not for you. They were without question the two top down jackets. It is all in the details and the Mammut doesn't have to bow to any of the jackets reviewed. 1" less loft, heavier than the EB and a longer pattern cut (less technical) on the Ambler were three details that I thought the EB did better. And the Mammut colors? I really like a solid colored, red Review is pretty detailed so there is more but those were the highlights.

That and a whole lot more...

More here and much more to come http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/937529/Belay_jacket_review_part_1#Post937529 here: http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/

You wouldn't if you understood the limitations of down and DWR. In the case of a down jacket DWR is a better answer than Event. "DWR, What is it? And how does it work? DWR is a fabric treatment. DWR stands for Durable, Water, Resistant. This durable water resistant treatment coats the fibers of the fabric with a hydrophobic finish, that causes water to bead up and roll off of the fabric. The DWR treatment does not close off the tiny openings between the fibers of the fabric, in turn keeping the fabric breathable. What this does in tents and clothing, is keep the water out, while allowing condensation to escape. How this all plays out in the real world: The DWR treatment does have its limitations. While under about 90% humidity conditions it will either negate or severely reduce condensation, once you hit dew point (dependant on humidity and temperature conditions) it won't matter what the fabric is treated/laminated with you will have condensation. When it comes to rain, there is a "breaking point" for what can be held back. The fabric can be overwhelmed with heavy and prolonged rains, This can be exacerbated by heavy winds that can force water through under extreme conditions. This can lead to water dripping on you through the fabric of a DNR tent wall. So if you want a shelter/clothing to shield you from winds and moderate precipitation, and want something that doesnt have ever present condensation issues, IE dripping on you when its nice outside, then DWR is the choice for you. DWR also excells in winter conditions. Think of it like lite weight breathable rain gear, it works under moderate conditions, without getting you all sweaty."

Ok, the ultimate spoiler here. Price no object the best heavy weight/bivy coats for my personal use? The BIG winners! Down...far and away the best of the bunch, at any price, Eddie Bauer XV Synthetic...again a clear winner...MEC Tango (i'd love one in yellow) Patagonia only wishes they understood let alone could build this nice of belay jacket. Hi-tech? The Narrona is amazing..combo of down and Primaloft (just wish I could justify buying one) The BIG loosers? To my huge surprise...Feathered Friends and Patagonia. The only jackets out of this bunch I would not care to own. Funny that, because when I started the review research I thought both manufactures would be the best of the bunch. I wasn't even remotely close on that guess. Details soon at http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/

I have last years, yellow/active. I've ditched the Grivel bales on both my Grivel crampons and use the Petzl bale on my BDs as well for the smaller boots. But the stainless Petzl's work harden, and have been known to break after long service life. So if you climb a lot I'd change them every couple of seasons. They really need a DIN boot sole and toe/heel profile. Otherwise boot/'pon fit is going to get worse before it gets better. Gotta love the set up though http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2009/03/les-grandes-jorasses.html http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/

I'm in a 45 so it may not help. But after changing out the funcky Grivel front bales to Petzl bales they fit my Batura and Evos fine with no gap on the front of the boot/'pon interface.

All mens XL jackets (except for the FF Hooded Helious which is a unisex XXL) with a T shirt under them. On a good day I am 6'1" and 205#. Mtn H Compressor $190 retail Primaloft Eco ('09/'10) new Patagonia DAS $300 retail Primaloft 1 Eddie Bauer XV $269 retail 850+ down Feathered Friends Front Point $429 retail Event 850+ down Norrona Lyngen $379. retail 750 down/ Primaloft hybred Feathered Friends Helious $275 retail Epic and 850 down Mammut Ambler $300 retail 800 down Arcteryx Dually $500 retail synthetic MEC Tango Belay jacket retail $275 CD ($260 US$ today) Primaloft 1 I have personal best selections in 3 catagories...any one want to hear them before the full info is published at the blog? http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/