Dane

A quick tally shows there are : retired soloists soloist who try not to solo solo back packers age dependant soloists soloists who don't climb above 5.7 soloist who climb best when depressed old soloists middle aged soloists young soloists soloists that actually enjoy it I like soloing simply because I've found no simplier way to enjoy climbing. Yes, you have to concentrate more as there is generally no "overs". But how fast you can cover technical ground can be amazing. The satisfaction is it's own reward. An out of control solo doesn't leave any sense of accomplishment past living. Not much of an accomplishment to intentionally risk your life and live. I started soloing to speed up my alpine climbing as well. But it didn't take long for soloing to become it's own venue for me. Rock, ice and alpine all shared in the results. Nothing really "hard" by today's standards but fun none the less. FWIW I actually plan my solos, just like I would do a climb with a partner. I check and sort gear very carefully, scope the route, get any beta I can find and do whatever current tests are required to see if my head is screwed on straight. I don't solo at my limit (no matter what that may be at the moment) but generally, at the very least, one full grade down at where I can comfortably lead with pro. More if I haven't been out for awhile by myself. I see in this thread and from a few searches that there are some here that do continue to solo. It would be interesting to hear from some of them and the kinds of climbs they are doing. Numbers aren't important..but cracks, slabs, ice, big walls, alpine..what ever you are into. I've done solos that are pure headpoints after mutiple pervious laps. Done solos that were on sight and big walls that I initially had a hard time getting my mind around. All have been good experiences. And although I spend much more time on a rope than off I am excited about the next time out on my own!

Close enough, I was poking fun at the "solo" backpacker lean on this thread.

It is only a guess on my part but I'd suspect being an out-of-shape, chickenshit is all that stops most from soloing Got nothing to do with their age or their responsiblities at home. If you climb I bet I can find someone close to you that calls you irresponsible and inconsiderate to your face or behind your back. If you post on CC.com I already know you're obnoxious.

From the guys who I know that have made a practice of hard soloing over the years not something I'd agree with. Same here on the ice. Much less risky entertainment and you can slide through on fitness compared to hard rock. Pup's thread was more of what I had in mind when i think of soloing.

And Debbie still isn't mobile. I suspect she got the worst of that day's tough luck. Just wanted to say thanks for all the well wishes from everyone here. To Sobo, Debbie, Tracy and all the guys (fellow climbers, ambulance, and fire crew) that made the phone calls and helped get me down the trail I really apprecaited the effort, thank you.

Same thing here. I am seldom at a loss for words. But the first time someone starts asking me about soloing I was at a loss for words. Never really talked about it other than with guys doing similar stuff. Not usually a topic of conversation for those that don't choose to partake. Shooting herion isn't a typical party topic over a glass of Merlot Then I realised "those guys" were a short list in my world. FWIW none of the guys I know who have a history of soloing difficult routes stop soloing if they still climb. The climbs and difficulty may change over time but the mind set doesn't. With all due respect to Petzoldt, I'd bet he was well past 60 when he made that statement, besides the fact that it was a good number of generations ago in the climbing world. Some things change...some don't.

I had this question posed to me today, "Is there a healthy soloist's community in Seattle?" ( try to avoid the obvious poke at that one That kind of stopped me for a moment and I had to think of the areas I have lived over the years and of the "soloists" I've known. It is a short list. Even shorter of those that have and still do. Just for fun lets get a head count. How many here intentionally solo routes (unroped) on technical terrain? Not just the occasional 4th class but the kind of things that most rope up on. Think more John Bachar, Peter Croft or Mark Twight sort of antics than a high ball like Classic crack with a bunch of people wandering about.

Agreed OT, but I'll bit. Anyone who knows me will tell you I am a egotistical, elistist prick when it comes to climbing. Had a bright yellow JB helmet on when I was on the Hinterstoisser Traverse. Not a big fan of helmets out side of ice and hard alpine. Didn't wear a bike helmet much till I broke my first one. Now I seldom ride without one. But given the right place I'll still ride lidless on occasion Doubt I will ever wear a helmet cragging on rock. Not the environment I want to climb in. But it is a decision I have thought about and make from vanity not rational decision making. If I had a kid starting to climb today he'd being wearing a helmet. I did notice one of the Huber brothers wearing a helmet in a recent pic while freeing a line on El Cap. Might be a better role model than a dinosaur like myself. And that too is an image that can change. Helmets I am using now and like are the Grivel Salamander and the BD Tracer. Either would hardly be noticable for climbing on pure rock.

Now there is a pretty picture. Me laying on top of Sobo, moaning, while he feels me up at the base of Castle Rock.....and on our first date! And I thought the fall was embarrassing He must have had warm hands...is it no wonder I was in my "happy place"!

Took me a while to decide to write about this. Still uncomfortable with the format I have chosen but hopefully some will find the comments enlightening. But it is written for me as much as it is for the forum. I have been climbing awhile and taken many, many falls while leading on trad routes and later on sport routes. The longest a full 70’ onto a 2” swami with no leg loops. Very few falls (actually only a couple) came as a surprise on lead. The 70’ was one of them. But no harm, no foul and no serious injuries. The surprises and really pushing hard I generally saved for top ropes. From the early ‘80s to the mid ‘90s I was fortunate enough to do a number of 1st ascents of trad routes in the .11s to easy .12 range and was able to solo a lot. Solos included multi pitch 5.10 and 5.11 routes. In all that mileage over the years the few injuries I did sustain in falls have been minor, blistered finger tips on a slab, a tweaked ankle I could walk on after dropping onto a sloping ledge, a grounder that I could at least hobble away from. None of them a surprise. Sore and bruised maybe but never broken. Only one kept me off the rock again that particular day. So when I have read about rock climbing accidents over the years I have always put them off to bad luck, inexperience or just plain stupidity on the climbers part. Then I fell off. How hard was it? 5.6. How high? Maybe 20 feet? Most will know the route, The Fault on Lower Castle Rock. It is a simple chimney pitch, easily climbed inside the chimney until you can get some protection and squirm out of the crack just past the tree. Or you can face climb the chimney wall if you choose till you get to that first piece of pro in. I have soloed the complete Fault/Catapult line to Logger’s Ledge and finished by climbing one route or another on upper Castle Rock many times. I can tell you in detail how the fall happened. I remember a good left foot and a great left hand. Right hand was just in casual opposition on the edge of the chimney. It was all I needed to make the right step up. As I stepped up to a small ledge for my right foot I was thinking about how my Carhart pants were just a bit too tight for the high step I was taking. And that I had one more move before my first piece of pro would go in. No worries, casual. Then my left bicep tore completely off my forearm (old injury my Doc said to rehab, which I did and then ice climbed on all winter) There is more to that story but not really relevant to my point of this post. As I said I’ve taken enough falls to have a pretty good idea of what is now happening. Wall is just off vertical here. I remember thinking it was bad that I wasn’t falling straight down. In retrospect I suspect that saved me from even more serious injuries. ( like shattered ankles and broken legs) I felt the toe of my right foot hooking on the rock as I went down. Kinda like a crampon would do on ice. That is never a good thing. THANG! goes the right ankle. That ain’t going to be pretty is my last conscious thought. Next thing I am almost horizontal and figure I smacked the shallow scoop on the right wall. I’m out cold and bouncing down the wall now so who knows. Bouncing is another good thing in retrospect. From the tally of my injuries later I suspect my partner Paul (SOBO here at CC.com) probably saved my life. Paul actually stood his ground and used his body to break my fall. I suspect I knocked him ass over tea-kettle. (some of this may or may not have ACTUALLY happened, Paul can add any details I have wrong) When I came to I can remember being annoyed that someone was yelling and shaking me to wake me up. I was in a happy place and just wanted to be left alone to enjoy my sleep. Then I realized I was sucking in dirt through my mouth and nose and was lying horizontal on my side facing the wall. And that I’d fallen off. Didn’t have the wind knocked out of me….although I suspect that all happened while I was unconscious. From just my little “reality check” I figured I was pretty fucked up. I rolled over, sat up and changed my shoes and soxs and took off my harness. At some point I remember saying “Sorry but I am done for today”. Then I tried to stand. That wasn’t going to happen. "Shit, can’t even hobble back to the car…this is embarrassing.” A couple of other climbers came up the trail and didn’t notice anything special. Paul explained to them what had happened and asked them to use a phone to get an ambulance on the way. One of the guys split to get phone reception farther down the canyon near Leavenworth. I suspect less than 30 minutes later the emergency crews showed up, taped me to a back board and down the hill and off to Wenatchee Valley Hospital I went. I was out of the hospital 6 or 7 hrs later, had my wife and a friend pick up my car and checked us into a hotel in Leavenworth. It was a rough drive getting home the next day. For the next 4 weeks I lived with pee bottles, muscle relaxants and pain killers. Surgery on my torn bicep could not be done until the headaches eased from the concussion. (A helmet? Come on it is cragging in Leavenworth for chrimney sake) You have a 14 day window for the surgery before your bicep starts to really atorphy and then shrink into you upper shoulder. 14 days later the surgery would be a mute point. I went 10 days. My head still felt like someone wanted to get in using a can opener. I wanted a working arm and decided the pain wasn’t that bad…at least not enough to mention again. 4 weeks on serious pain killers will plug up an healthy elephant. At some point I decided taking a shit was more important that being in happy land with no pain. I think it was the night I had to pull a turd out of my own ass and keep from passing out while doing so. Ya it was that grim. The second one wasn’t any better. Fuck, it hurt. It was bad and had to change. I decided shitting was more important than lack of pain and advil would have to do from that day forward. Although there were times I broke down and thankfully got another 4 hr fix so I could sleep. It is now a full 6weeks later. I started spending most of the day out of bed @ 4 weeks. Simply because I couldn’t sleep without the pain killers. I still couldn’t walk. I could move my ankle so started rehab at home. I was actually able to run 2 miles yesterday. The first at 13 minutes and after a couple of minute break the second at 11 min. Up from sub 7s six weeks ago. I have a ways to go but I can walk and run again. There were times in the drug induced haze that I wondered. Today I did a 10 mile bike ride. Took me 46 minutes on a course I can generally do in mid 30s. But I am mobile again. Things will go faster now. My head still hurts on a daily basis. I have some memory loss. Rehab always hurts but that will diminish in time as well. When they put me into the ambulance I figured I was pretty messed up. I hurt from my big toe (the nail is totally black now) to my eyebrow (my only cut) on my right side. A torn bicep only hurts when you actually tear it off, them the pain is gone. So the left side was good. I refused any pain meds in the ambulance so I could accurately describe what I though my injuries were to the ER Dr. After a lifetime of injuries I thought I had a pretty good idea on what I had broken…..again. Right ankle broken (last shattered in ’93) Broken hip…new one for me Internal injuries on my right side… again new Broken right little finger (’05) Broken shoulder ( ’75) Broken back ( ’73) Broken neck …another new one Left bicep detached (right bicep ’07) Thankfully I was way off on my own diagnosis. But trust me, every one of those areas still hurts 6 weeks later. Enough so that it is distracting. The ankle was just a severe sprain. Early rehab and 4 weeks of bed rest made for a quick recovery once I could take body weight on it. Nothing else broken besides the finger which was dislocated in the fall. It finally was realigned correctly this week when I shook hands with a buddy. Brought tears to my eyes but the finger works better now, just one sore nasty bitch at the moment. Something not quite right with my guts. On the ride today everything between my hips and my armpit felt like they were unglued internally. Pushing hard on the bike just made me puke. I still can’t sleep on my right side. I’m counting on that just “going away”. Gotta make me think again on how lucky I was to have Paul break the fall and not just auger in to the dirt. My right shoulder feels pretty much like it did after being dislocated. Loss in range of motion and it makes some funny sounds now. Professional rehab, lots of hard work and time for that one. My neck now makes all sorts of funny noises when I move and gets really sore if I move it wrong or quickly. Head aches come and go. A 2” strip from the back of my neck to the top of my scalp still feels “weird” and itches. Again…if I had hit without Paul breaking the fall…...I suspect I’d now be dead or much more seriously injured. The bicep surgery went fine. I am well on the way back to full strength on the left arm. Only down side is the top of my left hand and wrist are now numb from nerve damage during surgery…not uncommon.. Won’t be climbing any cracks till I get full feeling back there. So what did an off day on the rock really cost besides a few extra aches and pains? To date, 6 weeks out of work and counting. I am just now starting to get a few hours a day in the shop. I work for myself so I can set my own schedule. Down side is if I don’t work there is no cash flow coming in and at the moment lots of it going out. I suspect it will be another 6 weeks before I can physically put in a full 40 hr week. I have a decent insurance plan but will still pay between 2 to $3000 out of pocket by the time I am done. Not everything is in yet for billing and the rehab is a conservative estimate from what I have paid on other injuries in the past couple of years. You need to learn to be your own health’s advocate. Remember that our health professionals are still “practicing medicine”. You might as well start now, doing the same. No one knows your body better than you. Ask questions, learn to say no and most importantly listen to your body. And finally, don’t deck out Considering a trip to the emergency room and only one “real” injury (torn bicep) was treated things add up fast. The actual bills I have seen so far look something like this: $1005.00 Ambulance from Castle to Wenatchee 6392.00 Emergency room Wenatchee 456.00 Wenatchee hostpital 2200.00 Orthopedic surgeon 3625.00 Ortho practice/ surgery room 1372.48 Anesthesia 3500.00 Rehab 1600.00 Radiologist CT and MRI You might want to check out an insurance plan if you don’t already have one. Dropping $20K cash and another two months of wages on one day of climbing in Leavenworth is not my idea of a climbing vacation. FWIW.. when I fell my right hand was on the white knob across from the horizontal crack in the shadow line of this picture. And yes it is just as easy as it looks. And Paul, "thanks bro" not many guys can hold their mud What isn't mentioned until now is the many pee bottles my wife emptied, the breakfast and lunches she left at my night stand and the stress she went through watching all this unfold at home or waiting in a hospital room. You had better pic a tough partner.

Hey Jud, I can relate to your confusion on the "best" set of tools. Use to be a standard set of ice climbing tools might well be a 70cm Chouinard axe and an alpine hammer. Or maybe even just two axes. Bridalveil Falls in Colorado was first done free with a pair of 70cm bamboo axes and is still rated WI6. The current generation of bent shaft tools genenerally leave something to be deisred when you want an "alpine mountaineering tool". Additional length on the the shaft being on of them. No question that the newest tools climb better on technical terrain. But if you are plunging a tool in endless hard snow I'd rather have a longer axe with a straight shaft than 50cm tool with a curved shaft. House and Anderson used one of the newer Grivel mountainering tools with a slight bend in the upper shaft to compliment their more technical Grivel tools on Nanga Parbat. http://www.grivelnorthamerica.com/products.php?gid=1&id=7 Looks to be one of the same Grivel axes used with a curved handle hammer of some type in this pic on Gibraltar Ledges of one of the Climbing Rangers. http://bp1.blogger.com/_Fgo0YDV4zro/SBYgYQvo5GI/AAAAAAAAAKc/rgv5QhQC13Y/s1600/Tom%2BGib%2BChute.jpg That is some pretty steep snow The tools are older Charlet Mosers that can be had fairly cheep (2nd Ascent in Seattle) and are good tools although a bit heavy by today's standards. And won't be all that useful for self arrest. Bottom line? A good mountaineering axe (60 to 70cm) will get you up any ice you find and can a still be long enough to use on steep snow in piolet canne and with the right pick design, self arrest with ease. Matched it with a shorter technical tool (45 to 50cm) you would have a good combo to take on most any route. Many of us end up with a quiver of axes and ice tools for different terrain or as the tools become dated. A 70cm axe still makes sense to me for the right climb (any Rainier route for example). A set of 50cm tools, now matter what design, are for steeper, more technical terrain. One of each, one short and one long, is a good combo to get you up most any mountain. If you keep at it at some point you'll want a set of technical tools. (read 50cm matched pair) At that point check around and buy the most useful tools available. Technical tools change rapidly.....no reason to buy something that is already years out of date. ps..none of the pics are mine...thank you to there perspective owners.

email sent on the Sportiva Trangos I'll also take the tech Friends.

I also have the FF Vireo. Mine is not a half bag. It is a full bag with no hood but will snug up around by neck no problem even at 6'1". Also worth noting that the majority of the fill is @ or below the waist. The upper is made to layer with a hooded parka of some sort. Gives you an option for more or less insulation on top. I generally use mine with a Patagonia Puff Hoody. Gives me two pieces that are about the size of a one liter water bottle stuffed. Yep, the Vario easily stuffs to slightly smaller than a 1L water bottle. It is a tight bag and you need to carry a jacket if you want to sleep warm at freezing or lower. I've used the system in Canada in winter...works short term but just barely. The Vario by itself works for Rainier in summer if you are willing to sleep in your shell gear. The Vario is a 1# bag plus what ever your belay jacket weight is for a total bag weight. When your pack is loaded two small packages are easily stored and ignored. I'd rather sleep more comfortably most of the time but the light weight and small package made the Vario a bag worth having imo.

Depends on how you feel about 4th class rock. By the time you get down the Cascadian and back up the pass I suspect it would be a wash. If the decision is carry bivy gear up the West Ridge and down Cascadian, or no bivy gear and up and down the West Ridge the second choice sounds a lot better and more fun (and faster) to me It might be a little slower but it is a lot more fun and generally just walking and scambling if you are decent at route finding. After going up the West Ridge you should be able to find the easiest route finding on the way down. But I doubt you'd have a problem either way. The walk off from the base of the west ridge is more fun with no elevation gain on the way out which you can't say for Cascadian.

This is FWIW info. I've done the CNRidge in plastic boots in June...we didn't do the Gendarme. Put on the boots at the top of Goat pass, used runners to get to there. I also have done the Upper N Ridge in Brooks trail running shoes and the Gendarme in a pair of Mythos. Been down Cascadian and the West Ridge in runners and in boots. If I were going in July I would take either a really light boot like the Garmont (or something even lighter) or a good set of trailing running shoes. You'll have more fun I suspect going up and down the lighter you go for footware. Although the Cascadian is a loooong bitch with or without snow. No reason in the world to take rock shoes on the West Ridge unless you have a pair that are REALLY comfortable to walk in. You might want to think about going both up and down the West ridge.

Good for you Marc. I know more than one guy who started off doing things like your trip and ended up doing the Eiger, Everest and much more. The key to any climb is just getting out while using the gear you do have. Too many wankers here worry more about their gear and looking cool than actually climbing. Always better to have a rope and not need it than the other way around. Good on ya mate.

I would also doubt the possibility of ice crytals coming though a First Light tent wall.

Thanks Martin...

Anyone have a good photo of the Fault on lower Castle rock? Be cool if there was a climber in it but most anything will work? Thanks!

That is a reach.....

The curved handled tools are overkill for any of the "moderate" alpine ice routes including things like Slipstream. All of them are a compromise for plunging...the Aztarex being one of the better imo as well. Although the Aztarex is a bit too light in the head for me on rock hard alpine ice. You get spoiled with the better "modern" ice tools when the ice gets steep or hard and brittle. One of my favorite tools is the Grivel, Air Tech Evo. http://www.grivelnorthamerica.com/products.php?gid=1&id=7 Bit pricey and picks that will wear out in time. But I have some older axes I still use without the ability to change picks. Old Cobra and new Cobra's are totally different tools. But the older Cobra will get you up most any modern alpine climb and be better suited for the moderate alpine routes you want to do now. If bought at the "right price" they would be a good set of tools to grow with imo. No clue how tall you are but most everything we are discussing here the tools are 50sm. Most alpine "ice" routes, even the most difficult, are going to have lots of plunging and a longer axe makes some sense a majority of the time. I'm 6'1" and use a pair of 50cm tools a majority of time when at least one 60 or 70 would make much more sense on anything but steeper water ice. Helps to remember that a alpine ice route with 70 degree ice will generally have a impressive reputation. Put a pitch or two of something like Grade 3 WI (Cascade for example) in an alpine environment and you have some serious climbing...all easily done with a simple curved pick and a straight shaft.

Leavenworth..Air Roof..ie Flotation

Forgot, the last couple of times we used a Bibler on the West butt we also used every available snow cave on route to cook in. As mentioned previously, how you protect your tent in a storm (snow walls and keeping the tent shoveled out) will make a big difference on how -or if- the tents lives through a storm. The long version (the BD First Light doesn't come in the long version) is decent for two climbers and is pretty tight for 3 for all but the best of friends. Once acclimitized we did a quick trip with three in a long Intergal Designs tent and it was really pretty unpleasant.

I've used Biblers/Intergal Designs a number of times in Alaska including on the West Butt from the air strip up to 17K. One of my tents now is a BD First Light. The First Light is the 2.0 version of the original Bibler...just done in a lighter weight material. Note, I didn't say less strong material. I know a few guys who have used the BD First Light in some pretty shitty conditions up high. And now they won't use the heavier versions. I have watched the seam lines widen by the gust in a good Alaska blow on an old, well worn Bibler @ 17K. But our tent never failed....while others did. If you are planning on a long trip I would take a bigger tent and at least take a bigger tent into the air strip or to 11 on the west butt just for comfort. But for a fit team of two from 11K (or the strip) up I wouldn't bat an eye at taking a BD First Light on McKinley. Just make sure you realise how cramped the small single walled tents really are when you'll have to spend days (and days) in them.

This may not help but worth noting. The Nepal last is a bit more narrow in the toe than the Trango Series. The Batura is closer to the Trango last in fit. (although Sportiva says the Batura uses a Nepal last, it does not in my experience) It may not be enough to fit your foot but the Trango/Batura has more room in the toe than the Nepal last for me.