minx

well, its been slow and painful but at least you're finally learning

this is a great topic. mtn fund raises a great question. glad to see ken4ord chiming in. he's got some first hand experience to add to the conversation. i'll just throw in a couple of points. 1) JayB is right, there's a ton of good info on the effect of food aid for a country. it isn't always good. in many cases providing the necessary tools to allow microscale farming is better. it provides for one family and can also allow them to add food to the marketplace thus adding to the economy. 2) i think charitable giving, be it time or money, is a good thing. there are hundreds and hundres of ways, places and organizations to give to. pick one that feels right to you. sometimes helping a few people can lead to bigger things. sometimes throwing a lot of money at a big problem does bring solutions. helping as many folks as possible always seems better but it is often difficult to predict what the longterm effects will be. sometimes a small project is just as important. jon-i respectfully disagree, as stated before, it is not automatically a good choice or an improvement in conditions for people to move to a city. they may be just as likely to suffer form malnutrition and poor health care in the city as anywhere else.

this thread restores my interest in spray

you're not?

this might be the most pathetic "i'm bored in my cubicle at work" thread ever!

jeeves can kiss my ass. my laundry still isn't folded. what the hell is he doing answering random questions???

muffy's hot. you can admire the scenery no matter what the age difference is

mr. enemy is notably absent today. i miss arch

you know there are plenty of online calculators to do this problem for you. you'll never actually have to do this in the real world. i suggest you remind your chemistry prof of this.

i'm pretty sure you can get muffy to jump out of the cake but you're going to have to use some trickery and strategery to get arch into a cheerleader outfit.

this whole thread is just plain stupid. so is the discussion about the importance of stay at home moms. every family is different. each one has to do what works. i was a stay at home mom for almost a year. i couldn't find enough things to do outside of the house. i was going insane. it was awful. i really really hated it. otoh, i think my son is the best that ever happened in my world. i'm just not so good at playing the traditional role of stay at home mom. whether or not you work or stay home, you're a fulltime parent and parenting styles vary tremendously.

the international conference on eating disorders is being held at the hotel where i'm staying. you've never seen so many extra extra thin girls. now there's some folks who know how to diet!

hey all- i'm just going to keep dumping anything related to yesterday's nonsense b/c i think its best that we just leave it in the past. no offense meant

Bill can be president of anything he wants -- portland PC? his own fan club? Oregon?

tanstaafl--nice look up!

yep-not suggesting that it should be any other way. just had that reminder inserted into the banality of my work life. the contrast struck me. i stack the deck in my favor but i certainly enjoy hearing the tales of endeavors for more challengin and interesting than my own.

true enough-- it just got to me a little more today. one thread, i'm reading about someone's success (YAY) i love that. it makes my day so much nicer to see that. in the very next thread, i'm reading about the loss of someone who must've shared, on some level, the same joy the mountains bring me. although, i'm sure the person was a far better climber than me, i'm reminded that another lover of the mountains has been lost. there's a certain sadness in that whether i know him or not.

the extremes of our sport. i know that they're everyday and that today is no different than any other. while reading the climbers board, i read with a smile the story about eric's climbs in France. excellent reading and news then i read the about the tragedy in the Ruth Gorge. it makes me so sad. i don't know who the lost soul is but it's a tragedy for their loved ones. amazing the happiness and sorrow that can be involved.

i think motomagik is my favorite poster of the day. well said. muffy, i know you're stirring the pot. it's a big pot to stir when it comes to this subject.

muffy- quit being overly broad. its all about context. i'm not saying that a huge majority in pakistan have jobs and choices. i'm just expressing that it's beginning to change. i'm not saying tell them how to live. it's a choice to take this class. human rights though, should not be a choice. they should apply regardless of culture. just for reference, pakistan and india are very different places and really hate each other quite a bit. women's roles in india are much different than they are in pakistan. afaganastan certainly isn't the only repressive muslim society.

Normally I would agree with this statement but not in the case of a Muslim country. In other places, where women are already considered equals, of course this would be true. But in places where women can be arrested for wearing brightly colored scarves, they need to have the chance to shine on their own. I think this sounds like an amazing opportunity, and an excellent cause. In all muslim countries women are standing up for their basic human rights, and the world should be supportive. beautifully susinct. thanks!

wow- lots of good discussion i'm not usually a fan of women only functions but there's nothing inherently wrong with getting a group of girls together to have some fun and learn. chicks with picks may seem goofy to you but quite a few women have learned to ice climb that way. not a bad thing if you're a female and little worried about hanging w/the guys when it comes to learning a new sport. remember these women have no familiarity with this type of endeavor. muffy- i couldn't disagree more. the poverty in so many parts of the world is staggering. i mean truly indescribable. the disparity between the rich and the poor is so great that it makes the US population look uniformly wealthy. its not a difference in culture and priority. its a lack of resources and infrastructure. if it was truly cultural, then no one in those countries would bother to live in a real house, own a car or have electricity -- they do. it oppressive poverty. its good for the US well being to help people in other countries. it hopefully builds some measure of goodwill between us and those with whom we have idealogical differences. here in the US lots of people need help and better access to health care. h/e much of that is due to mismanagement of current programs and money. its not as though billions and billions of dollars don't get poured into these programs each year. they can choose to take the class if they want to. for many it may be the first real "lifestyle" choice they've had in a while. individually they'll have to decide what personal risks it brings. you can't MAKE someone climb. the women will probably not be draped from head to toe if they are climbing with other women only. even if they are perhaps instead of the burqa they can wear salwar instead. not every muslim wears a burqa. not everyone in pakistan is muslim. i worked in a women's only health club many years ago. we had a muslim client. her husband would drop her off fully covered at the front door. she came in and wore regular work out clothes and swimsuits. she only excercised in the rooms with no windows though so no men would see her. because it hasn't been done much. that's not the role that women are viewed in right now. maybe it has but not much obviously. sometimes it takes an outside catalyst to bring change. my guess is sherri means she doesn't want to turn pakistani culture upside down. i'm betting she sees this as a small shift that might improve women's rights which are human rights. women don't have to have the same role as men in a society to be treated respectfully and humanely. its not up to us to determine their role. i do think it's important that we continue to open the doors to basic human rights though. women choose many different roles here in the US. most of the wome in my neighborhood (stepford) don't have jobs. Culture varies here from one city to the next, one region to the next. the difference is the choice and the opportunity. its a misconception that women in pakistan don't work. many in the cities do. this class just creates a new avenue.

but damn i'd get old quickly.

wish there was something to say to make it better for those who lost a loved one. peace to all of the loved ones of this climber.

we could figure out when kevbone's prodigous posting started but it really doesn't matter. kevbone-- the obvious difference between you and arch is that you focus a high percentage of your posts on responses to anything Arch posts. She spreads the love around and doesn't realy respond all that often to you. FTR -- kevbone has ~ 20 posts prior to 4/25/2006. it appears that his first posts were in 10/05. based on this information we can assume that it took kevbone 10 months to figure out how to type and post.