catbirdseat

I like the fact that people are actually thinking about this now and not just coming out with kneejerk responses. This is a complicated case.

Okay, let me know what you all think about this. Suppose the gun was a .25 caliber with standard rounds and suppose you had fired a single round that, through chance, found its mark in the guy's heart. Same result, the man dies. How does this change anything?

Which is an indication of how confrontations that would normally result in, maybe, a black eye, escalate to more serious harm when a gun is handy. I would agree. The gun was the cause of everything. He probably would have gotten by with just a dog bite had he not had the gun.

Suppose you have hiked 10 miles. You are a 60 year old man and you are tired. You are wearing a pack, so you can't run. A man is running at full speed towards you screaming, "I'm going to fucking KILL YOU". His fists are raised. You have a gun in your hands. You have already shown the man that you have a gun. He's still coming, not slowing down. He says he's going to kill you. You can't believe he doesn't stop. You can't run. If he reaches you, he might kill you with your own gun. What do you do?

Firing the gun to scare the dogs was the mistake that set everything in motion. I normally carry trekking poles, and one of them held out in the direction of the dog is all that would have been required to fend it off. Much ado was made in the trial about the large caliber of the weapon and the fact that it was equipped with hollow point bullets. Had this been in a city park, I could buy that argument, but this was not a city park. It was a wilderness area where there are bears and mountain lions. I don't fear such animals but there are many people who do. If you are going to carry a weapon for that reason it needs to be effective.

Way to get down to the music!

She was way hotter when she had a browsable gallery. She, or rather her name and image, was "expropriated".

I didn't see the show. The only one who saw the show is the guy in jail. And the Dead guy. Appears the guy is trigger happy. He should be in jail. Dateline interviewed several people who had worked with the victim. One of them said that he knew something like this would happen. The man had an extremely volatile temper. He had assaulted others before. The former coworker likened the man to a ticking time bomb. None of this information was presented to the jury. Also it is pretty clear that many of you commenting on this thread did not read very much about this case. First of all the defendant did not shoot any dog. He fired a warning shot which scared the dogs away. Second, they interviewed someone in the dog pound from where the yellow lab came, and he said the dog had been there because he was a biter. I put myself in the defendant's shoes because I had been in a very similar situation myself. A few years ago, I was out for a run on my lunch break. I'd just sprinted up a big hill in Kinnear Park at Lower Queen Anne, when I came upon a man walking an unleashed dog. It was a medium sized poodle mix. The dog charged me. Like the man in the story above, I yelled at the man, "call your dog off! call your dog off". He just stood there, mute as he let the dog attack me. I kicked in it's direction to keep it from biting me. I managed to scare it (not sure if I actually struck it). At that point, I would of continued at a run, but I was completely out of breath. The man charged me with his fists raised. He stood there threatening me, while all I could do was gasp. If I had had a gun I would have shot the bastard. I have a right to run through a public park without being attacked by someone's dog and then by the owner who fails to control it. All I was doing was minding my own business. By the way, the law in Arizona was subsequently changed to put the onus on the prosecutor to prove that defendant acted in self-defense, rather than on the defendant. You obviously didn't read our posts very carefully. We were speaking hypothetically that it would be acceptable to shoot a threatending dog. NO ONE said that the man did shoot the dog. You should read more closely before admonishing us to do so. It is obvious you have not gotten over your run in with someone who scared you. Here is a wake up call for you--you don't get to shoot people for scaring you. You are alive an unharmed. That makes it pretty obvious that you didn't have the right to shoot that person. And trust me, I know what it's like to be attacked. But killing another human being is the most egregarious error that one could ever make. You people make wonderfun armchair quarterbacks. You are, like the prosecutor, excellent at judging a person for something had did when he had only an instant to make a decision that might determined whether he lived or died.

I didn't see the show. The only one who saw the show is the guy in jail. And the Dead guy. Appears the guy is trigger happy. He should be in jail. Dateline interviewed several people who had worked with the victim. One of them said that he knew something like this would happen. The man had an extremely volatile temper. He had assaulted others before. The former coworker likened the man to a ticking time bomb. None of this information was presented to the jury. Also it is pretty clear that many of you commenting on this thread did not read very much about this case. First of all the defendant did not shoot any dog. He fired a warning shot which scared the dogs away. Second, they interviewed someone in the dog pound from where the yellow lab came, and he said the dog had been there because he was a biter. I put myself in the defendant's shoes because I had been in a very similar situation myself. A few years ago, I was out for a run on my lunch break. I'd just sprinted up a big hill in Kinnear Park at Lower Queen Anne, when I came upon a man walking an unleashed dog. It was a medium sized poodle mix. The dog charged me. Like the man in the story above, I yelled at the man, "call your dog off! call your dog off". He just stood there, mute as he let the dog attack me. I kicked in it's direction to keep it from biting me. I managed to scare it (not sure if I actually struck it). At that point, I would of continued at a run, but I was completely out of breath. The man charged me with his fists raised. He stood there threatening me, while all I could do was gasp. If I had had a gun I would have shot the bastard. I have a right to run through a public park without being attacked by someone's dog and then by the owner who fails to control it. All I was doing was minding my own business. By the way, the law in Arizona was subsequently changed to put the onus on the prosecutor to prove that defendant acted in self-defense, rather than on the defendant.

I moved furniture around the house all morning, so you had a better day than I did. Sunday afternoon was beautiful in Seattle. It was killing me to not be out climbing.

In my experience you are better off driving up the night before and sleeping in your car. Those few hours help you acclimate a bit to the altitude. Going straight up there from sealevel is not good. Some people can do it with no problems.

That's because there are more meth addicts in the Northwest. There is more drug abuse here than in any place in the country.

Did you all hear about this case? A man used a gun in self-defense, but was convicted of second degree murder. Dog Walker Shot Dateline Story It was an interesting show. From the evidence that I was presented, I believe the shooting was justified and in self-defense. This case pitted the dog lovers against that gun lovers. It was quite a fight. The NRA helped fun the defense of the shooter. So now a school teacher with seven kids will spend ten years in prison for defending himself from a madman. The biggest mistake the guy made was that he used a big gun (10 mm) and shot the perp three times. I'm not sure how that has any baring on the case, but the prosecution made a big deal about it in the trial. Now I am not a gun owner and don't believe in carrying a weapon, but I think someone who is being attacked, even with just fists, is within their rights to defend themselves with deadly force.

No underclings for you then!

The only time I have been to Zion National Park was when I was about 15 years old, back in the 1970's. Our family of five rented a motor home and toured the Southwest. It was frustrating as hell for me because I wanted to get out away from the road and explore. I knew about some of these great hikes, but I couldn't get my folks to do any of them. Most of what I saw was through the windows of the motorhome. I'd still love to do that Angel's Landing hike. Someday.

Latest fall guy for the machinations of Karl Rove. I'm no Republican, but I have to say this whole thing with the prosecuting attorney firings is much to do about nothing. They work at the pleasure of the Administration. The only thing that is unusual here is it was done during a second term. There is no law that says they can't be fired during a term. They all got their jobs when Bush came into office, the same way their predesessors got their jobs when Bill Clinton was elected. I guess the fear on the part of Congress is that prosecutors will become the tools of the Administration, used to go after political enemies. Nominally, the reason for the firings is that voter fraud was not agressively persued in 2004. That was some time ago. Why use that now as the reason to fire? I am just very glad that Harriet Myers did not become a Supreme Court justice. Her idea was to fire all of them.

Damn, what a clever thing to say. Wish I'd thought of it.

I think I figured out what happened. Oly was thrashing his way up Zebra Zion when he encountered the impassible roof. It became necessary to use the Force to surmount the obstacle. Those familiar with the Force know that it can take a large amount of life energy to channel it. This may have temporarily weakend his immune system such that any of a number of omnipresent microbial invaders found its way into a small wound on the elbow.

I almost broke my leg once falling off a ladder whilst painting Dan's house in Tacoma. Fortunately, I landed like a cat, but the paint splattered all over the roof. I managed to clean it all up before Dan and wife returned home. I had to fess up to my mishap, as the roof and porch were still wet from the hose down. I don't think Dan was overly impressed with my skills as a painter.

Dude, did you forget? You said yourself, you are grounded!

You already know how to do that part about catching falls. I remember something about someone falling off the start of Winter Solstice before they got any pro in. You start that route by going up an easy ramp from the left. You can get pro part way up, but if you put it in there, you are just setting yourself up for some heinous rope drag later on, so it's just best to skip it but be very careful not to fall. Accident Link

Trip: Castle Rock, Tumwater Canyon - Several Date: 3/15/2007 Trip Report: After a scenic drive on Hwy 2, Roboboy and I arrived to an empty parking lot. The temperature was 35 degrees F. Decided to make for Logger's ledge on the theory that it would be warmer up higher. It actually was. There were mountain bike tracks in the patches of snow on the trail. Some lunatic thought it was a good idea to ride down. Of course he cut off the trail in several places. Though you have to admire the skill that it takes to do that sort of thing. We decided on Saber for starters, since it faces east. Roboboy led off on the route for the first time in 29 years. He still knows every route on Castle Rock and didn't need any guide book to tell him which way to go. As I pulled up to the belay on Saber Ledge, the sun peeked wanly through a stratus layer, enough to warm us up a bit. Rob remarked that he'd wished he'd accepted my earlier offer of extra slings. After a brief lunch break, we decided to follow the sun around to the south and do Winter Solstice. This fine route doesn't get done nearly as often as the adjacent route, Midway. It's a little harder, but really fun, and protects quite well. Just watch out for rope drag. As I was belaying I saw a couple guys walk up and start up Midway. Turns out it was Rob McDan and partner Mike (Triggerhappy), for his first ever trip up Castle Rock. With the two of them on top of Jello Tower, we decided to follow. Rob seemed to find (and clip) every ancient piton still left on the route and was convinced that we were on the original Midway route. Returning to the parking lot, we found Rob was having car trouble. We tried push starting his VW camper and then jump starting, but nothing seemed to work. Mike was anxious to hit the Snow Lake Trail to start a six day solo backpacking trip to the Enchantments, so when the DOT Incident Response truck came by, we took the young fellow to the Icicle. Hope they got the van going. Stopping at Heidelburger on the way home, I found their SOTB Chicken Sandwich to be delectable. Hit snow at Blewett Pass and rain the rest of the way home. It was pouring rain in North Bend. I had heard a group was headed out to Exit 38 after work. I wonder how that turned out? Gear Notes: Standard rack Approach Notes: Snow patches on trail. Rock was perfectly dry.

Best Wishes, Oly. Get well soon. I need you to be my ropegun for Zebra Zion.

Mike, it was hard to hear some of the dialog. When you were talking about measuring out your rescue coils by armlengths, a big gust of wind hit.

If you live your time will come I say if you live your time will come So child don't mess with that cotton sack It will scratch your knees and bend your back And if you live your time will come If you live your day will come If you live your day will come So child don't play with those pots and pans They will soon enough ruin your pretty hands And if you live your time will come If you live a day will come If you live a day will come When the sun will shine And the crops will grow And you think you're not gonna worry no more But if you live, your time will come