catbirdseat

"All I can think of is the liberal slant channel 4,5, & 7 give to the gun issue. They're all very anti-gun. " I think they get that way by having to report every night about some kid getting shot on the street. It probably wears on them after awhile.

Thanks, Lambone. I did mean cross-loaded. It's good to know those wire gates are as strong or stronger. I've always liked them because they are light and clip easily.

NbyN, How did they have the rope set up? Did it go from a fixed anchor at the bottom directly to the top piece they were testing, or did it also pass through any intermediate pieces? In order to perform a realistic test they would have to put in 6 pieces as Kropp did.

So in the case of Kropp, the biner broke BECAUSE the gate was open, even though it may have loaded along the strong axis. Perhaps the reason why the biner wedged was because Kropp was using quickdraws (as I recall). Maybe a longer sling might have kept the biner out of the crack? Now I have a terrible feeling this territory has been covered before- if so forgive me.

Can anyone tell me whether a solid gate traditional biner would be more resistant to breaking at the gate than a wiregate when loaded transversely (i.e. in the short direction)? Wire gates (so I am told) were developed for ice climbing where the gate is less likely to vibrate open with rope whistling through it. Obviously, the gate on a wire gate is less strong for any force direction other than longitudinal where the wire is in tension. I'm wondering if I should leave my wire gates at home when I go crack climbing?

Freeclimb, what I am trying to get at is why rock climbers don't use twins or doubles more often. Is it because they are more likely to climb as two rope teams of two and thus have the two ropes need for double rappels? Or is it because double rope rappels are not as critical on rock? (because they hang more and because anchors are more plentiful)

A mattp troll, if I ever saw one.

Here's my interpretation. The take-home message of the article is that heavy climbers should act to reduce fall factors when they climb. This means placing gear more often, especially early in the pitch. Strange thing though was that when Goren Kropp fell (a big guy), he was near the end of his pitch. The fall factor was low.

Hey, it certainly keeps track of the important items.

Assuming the story is true, there are a lot of facts that are not known. Don't get too excited yet, is all I'm saying.

"Watch out for that math. If what you did was to determine that the cross sections add up to the same surface area, you have only determined just that: cross section add up to the same surface area. I would venture a guess that this does not correspond directly with stretch or with the dynamic characteristics of the system. " I'm going way back in the thread here, but mattp brought up an interesting idea- at least for a nerd like me. That 9 mm is plenty strong enough and the only reason we climb with fatter ropes is for resistence to being cut over an edge. The Eidelweiss ropes improve their cut resistence by using aramid fibers in the core, which are tougher than nylon fibers. All fibers being equal, it is surface area (not cross section) which determines relative cut resistence. Surface area increases directly with of the diameter, whereas cross sectional area (i.e. strength and weight) increase as the square of the diameter. So you can see that you quickly get diminishing returns with increased diameter. I suppose that if you REALLY wanted a highly cut resistant rope (that was light) you'd climb with a flat rope (like webbing). Of course, that would be impractical because of problems with twisting, or would it? I wonder how a moderately oval section would behave in use?

What are the reasons ice climbers favor twins? 1) two are better than one if you happen to hack one with an ice tool 2) They are more elastic 3) Lighter Drag is not so much an issue on ice is it, otherwise they'd use doubles. Perhaps some do? Are two twins springier than one 9.8 of the same strength? Or does it just depend on the brand?

Isn't boingy good if you are ice climbing? The more energy the rope absorbs, the less that force is transmitted to your ice screw. Is that not so? Of course too much stretch and you might ground before being stopped in a fall.

We used to take summer trips to the mountains near Truckee, CA and I remember at age 5 getting up at 4 am and riding in the back of the station wagon. We'd wake up going over the Grapevine with the sun coming up with the radio playing On Broadway and Georgie Girl.

"Hey anybody, that fag sex. choc. is friggin stalking me by PM's. " Trask, it must be your magnetic personality.

Chris, I didn't answer your question fully. No you don't have to be a member, but you'll probably have to fill out a liability waiver if you participate. There is no cost to volunteers. One of the cool things about the project is you get to rope up and hang over a 2,000 ft cliff while you work, so they kind of rely on climbers to do the work.

Here is info on Threefingers from the Everett Branch website: http://www.everettmountaineers.org/lotm/lotm_projects/lotm_projects_3F.html For additional information on The Everett Mountaineers Lookout and Trail Maintenance program, send e-mail to lotm@everettmountaineers.org. Forest Fire Lookout Restoration Volunteers Needed The Lookout and Trail Maintenance Committee, well known throughout the Club and the Mt. Baker and Snoqualmie Ranger Districts as leaders in volunteer work, is always looking for volunteers to help out on fire lookouts maintained by the Everett Branch. Step back in time and live the life of a fire lookout crew. These National Historic Buildings played an integral part in the history of the road and trail systems we have today. The passage of time and harsh environments plus the many visitors put much wear and tear on the Lookouts so there is always work to be done. Work done on lookouts can be anything from carrying tools and materials up, to specialized construction. Most of the work though is scraping and painting involving many spectacular views. The work is very satisfying and much appreciated by visitors. For information on participating in a 3 Fingers work party contact Louie Coglas at earthhumor@juno.com or 425-672-4521.

If anyone is interested in helping, the Mountaineers are doing a workparty on Three Fingers Lookout in the summer. They will be rebuilding all the shutters and painting. They have a permit to allow a helicopter load of materials to be brought in.

Mac likes to tell a story about the days when he was running marathons. He had been working on the Three Fingers book and had done a lot of reseach on Harold Engles, but had never met the man. Mac was trying to run from Snoqualmie Pass to Stevens Pass nonstop and he met two old guys on the trail. They asked him how far he'd come. By this time he was no longer running and was pretty tired. He answered 40 miles. One of the two me who looked to be about 80 years old said, "I've done a few 35 mile days when I was working for the Forest Service, but never 40". Mac instantly knew he must be talking to Harold Engels. It turned out he was. At age 80 he still could hike 15 miles in a day with a pack on.

Yes, I suppose school girls could make it in summer. A Three-fingers summer is about six weeks long. However, it was an ice climb when I went last. Harold Engles was nuts when he and Harry Bedal decided to put the lookout there.

I climbed Rainier with Mac Bates. He's a really cool guy. He works as a school teacher in Snohomish. Trask, if you made it to Three Fingers Lookout, you must have at least been a climber of sorts at one time.

I was there for a couple of days over the holidays and it was nice and warm, if you were in the sun. As soon as the sun set, the temperatures dropped like a stone. It was well below freezing at night.

It's hard to say which one tune was first because my head is crammed with so many of them, but I would have to say, "The Yellow Rose of Texas", because that was the first thing that came to mind. Usually, one's first guess is the right one.

If you can believe it, I had never skied there before. It certainly lived up (or is it down) to its reputation. Its only virtue is that it is close to town and the roads are good. I expect that under rare circumstances the snow could be good there, but then it would be crowded, would it?

Go right ahead. However, the beneficiary may be your heirs.