billcoe

As many of you know, I work with the stuff on a daily basis. I think that Joseph is not far off, but not for the reasons he believes. I would be willing to bet that it is a matter of width and weave. The nature of most of the skinny weaves combined with the care they get in my rack results in diminished strength in our applications. The shocker was the testing done on skinny ropes suggesting they have a very very short live. ie, highly recommend to pay attention to the Mfg advice on retiring those 9.1 and 9.4mm ropes, rather than do what we all do on our 10-11mils and just ignore it.

Picture. Right there on the ground. Hey look, isn't that you there? Thanks for the reminder JH, I have some...man this is gonna be painful to let them go. I always mark my slings with dates in black felt tip. I have 5 brand new ones, and 9 that are marked '04 and I've been using. I think maybe they'll be relagated to TR duty for a while, and I'm going back to mostly slightly larger slings again. But they do make great draws when you double a full strength sling. I'd recommend the date thing for others, it always surprises me how fast time flies. Probably time to retire some TR slings that date to 1992. Wuz zat, uhhhmmm, almost 10, no 15 years. Can't be, I just bought them.

No shit. I think that theres a lot of bikes here is one reason for that extraordinary visibility of that issue, but sometimes it seems close. My boy was riding the city bus home @a month ago and was treated to the sad sight of a cyclist still lying dead under a stopped garbage truck after the wheels had rolled right over dude.

Man Ivan, those words carry sweet like soft bourbon and branch water. Don't forget your pro-tect-shun as said Debutant most likely has quietly defiled all comers for the last 3 years or so and while she still looks clean from the outside.....she's carrying years of sludge under the hood....

It appears, or I suspect, that you have not given my viewpoints anything more than minimal passing consideration and thought before blowing me off. Despite the fact that I am correct. Jackass?

Check in again when you show up, maybe post to the link I put up above. something like "I'm hereeeee!"

I suppose it was to be expected that this would cum out of the "University of Virginia"

Yeah, what Jayb said. As long as we have taken that left turn and it's about intolerance. ... Let me add that I try (but fail) to never denigrate others beliefs, including Jews, Christians, AND of the Christians, Mormons. I know that I often fail. This is significantly deeper and more complex than watching Seinfeld and laughing my ass off at some of Jerry's Jewish conflicts and foliables like getting caught laughing during Shindlers list. For instance, my brother gave me a shirt for Christmas which advertises a beer called "Polygamy Porter". I do not find the humor as funny as Dechristos above, but I'll probably wear it anyway. Link to old Inc magazine artical on the Wascch Beer marketing Chutzpah ""The secret to this [kind of advertising] is that you can have some fun with cultures and the way people act. " I don't think wearing this and offending Mormons is a good or humorous thing a all. The funniest part about it to me, is that my little brother understands how my revulsion of being meanspirted to others conflicts with my frugality and feelings for familial responsibility. He knows I cannot just toss or give the shirt away as it was a gift from a loved one, and that I will wear it here and there, and in so doing, have to come to internal terms with my conflicting feelings. He's laughing his ass off on 5 different levels thinking all of this and I suspect that if history is any guide, it won't stop anytime soon. I'm sure it won't stop after I wear it to his daughters wedding and shock the shit out of everyone instead of wearing a suit and tie either. But being his bro, I'll bide my time and bring the hammer down when the time is right. Just lighten up on the Pontification is all I ask Dawg. You think you're right about everything and want to stuff it down everyones throat. Most folks, (I obviously include myself) don't appreciate it. The world isn't black and white. I love having bolts on Monkey Face, for without them not a single route would exist on that formation. Like you, I dislike their current ease and offhand use about everywhere.

Thats what I meant. thank you. ___________________________________________________________ I should add this when I see excessive pontification. Like to thank everyone else for keeping Nazis and also head banging off the thread.

thanks, that was my understanding as well. In retrospect, probably its a good thing I'm not an interpreter for Israel or Iran. BTW, I suspect my position on bolting is actually real close to Dons on bolts.

As long as you are not poaching my lines! Look forward to those TR's!

Once again (and again, and again): Sure I've clipped bolts in my time, although very few sport climbs. I've actually placed perhaps 3 bolts in my life. They were drilled by hand and were for belay anchors. I believe bolts do have their RARE place [in short: to be avoided as they are permanent alterations to the landscape. They should be rare and safe; thoughtful belay and rappel anchors might be exceptions and other placements should, again, be few and far apart.] It's their proliferation that I detest and free-wheeling, bolt-dependent "sport-climbing" is a vile offender. I subscribe to the "leave little trace" philosophy of outdoor interaction; "Sport climbing" is an utter violation. I'd rather see climbing areas closed than see them grid-bolted. UNDERSTAND IT NOW??? And while we're at it....hypocrisy debates [a type of ad hominem attack] are only smoke-screens to avoid addressing the real issues....I could have clipped thousand of sport routes and still have issues with them. It might be personally inconsistent with one's beliefs, but it doesn't cause the issue itself to vanish. By the way, I've never bolted a crack. I suggest you put up your evidence for that or consider yourself slanderous. Stupid, eh? Whatever, Sparky. I noted Godwin's law in a previous post and consulted the very same link before I made my comments, specifically: The "law" [which in fact is not a "law"] is ultimately telling, yet silly, and joins Murphy's and those of other similar validity. Regarding my original comment for "DeChristo" to take off his uniform and sit in the corner....you apparently have no idea how utterly offensive his comment was. For a Christian, it would probably be like spitting on the cross of Jesus. Rabbi Alfred Kolatch stated it nicely with: "The Torah is the centerpiece of Judaism and the key to Jewish survival." Hundreds of Torah scrolls were confiscated or destroyed by the Nazis when they razed or burned synagogues. (although a few were dramatically rescued). Some have survived and to this day have been given to newly formed Jewish congregations around the world. The Nazi reference was to add emotional and historical power to my reaction, despite Godwin's opinion. As I noted above, Closet Nazi, eh? Looks like it's your turn to go sit in the corner....do some more "wondering" until you come to your senses. About time you owned up. Of course you clip the fuc*ers. Otherwise you'd be sitting at home twiddling your fingers. It's when you rant on on ANOTHER TIRELESS TIRAD OF HOW YOU WANT OTHERS TO ACT ad infinitum that it gets soooooooo old. You act like putting a line of bolts in is a desecration which Christians equate to nailing Jesus onto the cross. It's not. HELLO! In fact for your edification, it is significantly lower on the scale than bulldozing the road with major implements of destruction on Rainer which you seemed strangely silent about. You cannot see most bolts from the ground, yet the road is visible from the next plant over. HELLO!? Lighten up a bit will you? As far as Decristos quip. Dawg, re-read that and (brace yourself) lighten up a bit will you? Shit.

Damn, when did he get old? Say it ain't so!

I thought you lost some shoes at Beacon?

BTW Dawg: in case you're too stupid to click the link. For your edification and enjoyment, quoted verbatim below. Next time check the thread title before posting eh? "Godwin's law From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1] is an adage formulated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states:[2][3] As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. Godwin's law is often cited in online discussions as a caution against the use of inflammatory rhetoric or exaggerated comparisons, especially fallacious arguments of the reductio ad Hitlerum form. The rule does not make any statement whether any particular reference or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that one arising is increasingly probable. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued[4] that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact. Although in one of its early forms Godwin's law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions,[5] the law is now applied to any threaded online discussion: electronic mailing lists, message boards, chat rooms, and more recently blog comment threads and wiki talk pages. Contents [hide] * 1 History * 2 Corollaries and usage * 3 In popular culture * 4 See also * 5 References * 6 External links [edit] History Godwin has stated that he introduced Godwin's law in 1990 as an experiment in memetics.[3] Linking by implication the purported fallacy of reductio ad Hitlerum to online discussion length had been done prior to 1990 by a poster named Richard Sexton in 1989: "You can tell when a USENET [sic] discussion is getting old when one of the participents [sic] drags out Hitler and the Nazis."[6] Godwin's Law does not, however, claim to articulate a fallacy; it is instead framed as a memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons. [edit] Corollaries and usage There are many corollaries to Godwin's law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself)[2] than others invented later.[1] For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law. It is considered poor form to raise such a comparison arbitrarily with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's law will be unsuccessful (this is sometimes referred to as "Quirk's Exception").[7] Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Hitler or Nazis or their actions. It does not apply to discussions directly addressing genocide, propaganda, or other mainstays of the Nazi regime.[citation needed] Whether it applies to humorous use or references to oneself is open to interpretation, because although mentioning and trivializing Nazism in an online discussion, this would not be a fallacious attack against a debate opponent. However, Godwin's law itself can be abused, as a distraction or diversion, that fallaciously miscasts an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. A 2005 Reason magazine article argued that Godwin's law is often misused to ridicule even valid comparisons.[8] [edit] In popular culture While Godwin's law is best known in Usenet, it has clearly spread to other forms of online communication. In 2007, Slashdot noted that Godwin's law affected an ongoing, highly public dispute between Linux founder Linus Torvalds and the GNOME project.[9] A May 2007 issue of Randall Munroe's xkcd webcomic anachronistically portrays Allied officers trying to discuss Axis military tactics, but being interrupted by Godwin's law.[10] Similarly, a November 2007 issue of Jeph Jacques's webcomic Questionable Content, entitled "Godwin Wars", referenced (and contrasted) Godwin's law and the reductio ad Hitlerum.[11] Such appearances, without explanatory material, may suggest that it is increasingly assumed that web users are generally already familiar with the adage. In its October 2007 issue and on its website, Wired published a "Geekipedia" piece that includes an entry for "Godwin's law" among "people, place, ideas, and trends you need to know now".[12] The concept appears to have entered the public consciousness more broadly, as well. In 2005, the aphorism was the subject of a question in the British television quiz show University Challenge.[13] By 2007, The Economist had declared that "a good rule in most discussions is that the first person to call the other a Nazi automatically loses the argument."[14] And in October 2007, the "Last Page" columnist in The Smithsonian stated that when an adversary uses an inappropriate Hitler or Nazi comparison, "you have only to say 'Godwin's Law' and a trapdoor falls open, plunging your rival into a pool of hungry crocodiles."[15] [edit] See also This article has been illustrated as part of WikiProject WikiWorld. Image:Magnify-clip.png * Association fallacy * Benford's law of controversy * Grammar Nazi * Internet troll * List of adages named after people * Reductio ad Hitlerum [edit] References 1. ^ a b How to post about Nazis and get away with it — the Godwin's law FAQ. Retrieved on 2006-05-07. 2. ^ a b Godwin, Mike (1995-01-12). Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies (and Corollaries). EFF "Net Culture - Humor" Archive. Electronic Frontier Foundation. Retrieved on 2006-03-24. 3. ^ a b Godwin, Mike (2004-10-01). Meme, Counter-meme. Wired. Retrieved on 2006-03-24. 4. ^ Cyber Rights: Defending Free Speech in the Digital Age 5. ^ Godwin, Mike (1991-08-18). "Re: Nazis (was Re: Card's Article on Homosexuality". rec.arts.sf-lovers. (Web link). 6. ^ Sexton, Richard (1989-10-16). "Re: .aquaria (Tropical fish. Good enough for Hitler, why not you ?)". news.groups. (Web link). 7. ^ The Jargon File (4.4.7). Retrieved on 2007-03-01. 8. ^ Weigel, David. "Hands Off Hitler!: It's time to repeal Godwin's law", Reason, 2005-07-14. Retrieved on 2006-03-24. 9. ^ Zonk (2007-02-17). Godwin's law Invoked in Linus/Gnome Spat. Slashdot.org. 10. ^ Munroe, Randall (May 14, 2007). Regarding Mussolini. xkcd: A Webcomic of Romance, Sarcasm, Math, and Language. Retrieved on 2007-05-27. 11. ^ Jacques, Jeph (November 23, 2007). Godwin Wars. Questionable Content. Retrieved on 2007-11-23. 12. ^ Godwin's Law (October 2007). 13. ^ University Challenge. Presenter: Jeremy Paxman. Granada Television. BBC Two. 2005-12-12. 14. ^ The truth about eSStonia (2007-08-16). 15. ^ In the Name of the Law (October 2007). * Godwin's Law FAQ (also [1]) * Godwin's Law at the Public Domain Jargon File * Mike Godwin runs a legal blog called Godwin's Law "

Goodwins law is in effect: As distasteful as it is I admit I prefer the Nazi references to the plentiful Raindawg hypocritical bolting references, as I'm sure the dawg has clipped bolts then spins the reverse. Makes you wonder if he may in fact be a closet Nazi too. Given hypocrisy #1 (bolts), then is hypocricy #2 possible (closet Nazi) ? Hmmm makes one wonder. Oh fuc*k, what am I saying, I really hate them both. (reference below to Goodwins law in effect). Dawg, your Nazi posts suck. So do your bolting cracks. I can see Graham showed extreme wisdom in getting the hell out of here by page 1, wish I had his brains but here I am. Sigh... BTW, calling a person a Nazi because of a crack like that (which was pretty quick witted), not only ranks right there with your anti-bolting tirades, but is as anatahma to me as an anti-semitic crack would be. I hate all of them. Sooo F*cking needless.

Damn straight Sherri, and may I add that is the best Trip report I've seen in a long while! Wow! Impressive stuff there. 5.8?, 5.9? ...hmmm.... it sure looks 5.11+ as a minimum! . Thank you!

Thanks for sharing that Mythosgirl. At first I though he was gonna bust it on the board...sans rope. It brought a smile to me face to watch them hooking and crookin down the slope on rap. Love the duct tape too!

Good to see such good advice throughout this thread. 1 more salient point, the reason they should do this is not as much for themselves to feel better, although they will, but to prevent this kind of issue from happening to the next poor souls, who may not be so lucky if they should get to where their car use to be in a blizzard late at night and not make the hike (or get hit by a car walking) to the ranger station. Good luck!

Especially since it didn't follow the original concept and thought 13, which was, in case you are asleep, that everyone is trying to position themselves to be something which they are not as the election unfolds, ie, to pull the wool over our eyes. BTW 13, was the original "joke" suppose to be that Chaney was holding that weapon?

Because (Ala Huckabee as he showed the full version of an attack ad he was not going to publish to the worlds press) I was going to show up and start saying: *I told you so *I told you so *I told you so *I told you so However, I thought that it would be beneath me, childish and pointless, so I will not be posting that even though in fact I did "tell you so" as you can clearly see above. Instead, let me take the higher ground and wish you all a healthy, wealthy, fun and productive New Year!

What testpiece is that Mneagle?

Have a great climb. As you know, I need to stay home and help Jasmine with her New Years day party. BTW, if any of you think you should be there, then come. (3:30-8pm) I'm bad at organizing invitations, please don't take it as an affront. Got beer, wine, lots of food. Show up. Say hi.

Link to extreme Crowing I can guess that at least 10 of you will now post the fastest man-dog, or man-snaffle records which claim faster times? For the boards reading pleasure, the Jake Kammermeyer mentioned in that artical is a real person, honest to the bone and a real good dude. Jake stayed in our campsite in Yosemite and I even did a few routes with him, not long after The unmentionable Man-dog record holder claims Jake timed him on Hood. I wonder why Jake didn't mention it? Jake was moving to Alaska afterwards, so he's not around now to ask him.... If Jake told me that time was real, I would not hesitate to believe it. Anyone? It's interesting but you cannot type D*a*n H*o*w*i*tt without the stars and have it post.

Tomorrow night in Utah.