Crackbolter

Looks like the slab on the right could be 10 pitches. Nice pic Ray

I was just kidding. I am just having a hard time about the down fill powers. If you knew what I know you would too. When a company as good and high quality as Western Mountaineering lowers their standards to compete with Marmot, it is just a little disheartening. They really are equal in quality to FF when it comes to sleeping bags.

Yeah, It isn't a Feathered Friends bag. They have lowered their standards and now claim 875 fill.

Typical response. Be glad she has some understanding. Otherwise, it wouldn't have lasted nearly as long as it has.

"NEXT QUESTION?????? Do you think it is inappropriate to do weekend routes with the opposite sex without your wife present? " Loaded question directed towards husband I think.

Look at the age bracket of climbers. I think you are pretty young for having a husband and kid. Look at your peers. How many share your same situation? Climbers in general are quite independant and many are anti socials. Granted, the best climbers are those who can be successful in ascents yet still hold down a stable family life with a lot of time devoted towards their children. I could name a few names but why do I need to do that?

He will be healing in no time. Although my injury was not nearly as serious, I broke my talus bone while climbing in the Tumwater last year. 2 months later I was out climbing every weekend and still managed a few challenging climbs. My injury wasn't any big deal. It could have happened on a flight of stairs. It just so happened that every event in that moment caused an accident. It is nice to see a managable injury rather than somone perishing. Heave you guys noticed that we have had a pretty good year compared to last year?

How about N butt on Fury? It is a grade IV but probably exactly what you are looking for.

Check this out!

Didn't bring rock shoes on any of those peaks. Climbed the summits in my boots. None of the summits were 5th class. Nor were they more than 50' of scrambling. I think I would use rock shoes for the tooth though. Would you bring rock shoes on Forbidden? Gary, your point was not made.

All of the reasons are not good enough Gary. Rock shoes are for rock climbing. Boots are for hiking. Even if I were to do a technical route with low 5th class climbing I bring shoes. Especially true if I will need to downclimb. I vote we overthrow the Mountaineers board and reinstate the following trustees to recreate the rules: Board of Trustees President: Fred Beckey President-elect: Jim Nelson Vice President, Publishing: Jim Yoder Secretary: Mike Crosswaite Vice President, Properties: Pete Doorish Treasurer: Lowell Skoog Trustee: Dru Trustee: Ben Trustee: Eric Trustee: Ray Trustee: Forrest Trustee: Colin Trustee: Dan Trustee: Ron Trustee: Bruce Trustee-Bellingham: Alan Trustee-Everett: Kit Trustee-Olympia: Trustee-Tacoma: Trustee-Seattle:Tim

You are correct, assuming you are talking about ones physical ability in the gym. Bouldering is not important for mountaineering. What is important is how one communicates with his or her partner which is very much learned inside a gym or man made structure where your peers are there to intervene in the event you make a mistake. Since lack of communication and inexperience tends to be the major contributers in mountaineering accidents, one would think about working towards preventing accidents. Also, Why wear hiking boots rock climbing? I never understood this mentality. Aren't you required to climb the tooth in boots? Has this rediculous rule changed yet?

So if you are an intermediate climber you get to learn to place pro. An intermediate climber is after one year right? I know people who learned to toprope their first year and lead their first year. Some learned all of the above and could lead 5.9 gear their first year. Others learned at a much, much slower rate. I know folks who have climbed for 4 years and still aren't comfortable placing pro and leading with gear. Why have a determined amount of classes for such a broad comfort level? Also, why have one instructor teaching the basic course? Why not set it up with a larger number of teachers if you are going to teach a large number of people.

Mountaineers require essential rock climbing knowledge that is taught from another individual. The fault I am seeing with an organized group such as the Mounties is that their curriculum is faulty. Take a look at other type of learning that is not nearly as organized as the Mountaineers. Many "mountaineers" start with gym, sport and synthetic structures to learn how to safely belay, lead, toprope, tie knots, etc. Such things as fitness, route finding and navigation, equipment, weather resources, etc are learned through experience on top of gaining info from experienced climbers but are not necessarily dire in the beginning.

Question, Why don't the mounties teach the basic climbing course indoors like many learn from climbing in the gym? Isn't it better that they are focused on learning rather than being gripped from the exposure while trying to learn the basics? Also, How much experience does the instructor have? A year? Two years tops? Last, Why don't mounties sport climb like the rest of the beginning community? I never understood why it was so important to learn gear anchors right away considering there is so much other stuff to learn first. Can somone elaborate?

Also, Ranier and Olympic are both National parks and count as one fee. Buy the annual pass and you are allowed access to all national parks.

Jens, I wouldn't say your post is spray at all. Now talk about how great your lead was on such and such route and I would count it as spray. Thanks for posting the list. I hope to compile a complete list for people to reference when they are writing to Patty of campaining against the Fee Demo. Thanks.

Dru, I think you are on to something. A massive demonstration against the program would be helpful. It will help recognize the fact that almost all organizations and citizens really are against the Fee Demo program. Last time I checked, no one I know of is for the program except logging companies, mining companies, USDA, BLM and the US National Forest. I would love to organize a national awareness anti fee demo demonstration day!

Yes. But for Smith you need ONLY the State Park Pass. Smith is not a part of the Fee Demo Program. I am not an apologist for fees to recreate on public lands, but I don't mind paying for Smith. A tremendous amount of work goes into maintaining that area and it sees an enormous amount of use. Also, the Oregon State Parks annual permit is good for certain areas in WA as well. The Oregon Snow Park Permit is good in Washington too. There is a bit of overlap but its all extremely confusing. Yes, I agree that Smith is spereate but you still need a Fee Demo park pass to access other parts of Oregon. Smith also gets way more attention because of the amount of traffic and the accessability. Also, the facilities are way more luxury. Hot water showers and hike in campsites. I'd say it is regulated quite well. You still have to pay to play though.

11 and 12 are city fees for man made structures I don't think they count

No but you still have to buy the pass for other areas and then pay for Smith on top of that right?

After seeing a large number of posts regarding the Fee Demo Program, I would like your help to compile a list of access fees that we all are required to pay to access our public lands. What I am looking for are different examples of the types of fee programs going on. I am also looking for compounded fees such as Smith Rock State Park parking fees that are required on top of the Forest Service Fee Demo Parking Pass. Please include recreation areas in the Pacific Northwest. This excludes city fees such as Marymoore park. It would be nice to have everyone collaberate info so we have it available to use as opposition data when writing to our politicians. Please help! Thanks

I use a Sage 4 piece DS2 8'6" 5 weight with an Okuma reel. I think this is the best good quality cheap gear. The reel is about $60 at the most. The rod is more like $250. Don't skimp out on fly line. Make sure to spend at least $45 for a good fly line. It is the only thing that doesn't last a lifetime. You will want to replace it like every 10 years at the least. If you can afford it, look for a 5 or 6 piece rod made by Winston , Sage , St Croix or Powell . That way you can pack the rod rolled up in the ridgerest rather than carrying a heavy tube. The best lightweight reel is the Waterworks reel. I think I am going to buy this outfit next year. The whole package will weigh less than 7 ounces. Flies weight nothing. Tippet weighs one ounce per spool. You only need 4 spools at the most.

What kind of setup are you gonna get? Trout or Steelhead? I am going to upgrade one day for the winston 6 peice so I can pack it on alpine climbs