Off_White

Oh I do, always enjoy finding points of agreement with PP

Always a delight to have my favorite closet case drop by for a visit.

Crillz has it right, park before there's a sign and you're legal, no shenanigans involved. I've done it at lots of NW Forest Pass sites and never had a problem. You might have to walk a little bit, but so what.

Kayaking? That shit is crazy and will get you killed!

I'm sure its great, but given the west side location, cleaning is a lot of work and its been easier for folks to focus on the drier areas of the Tieton river valley. I'm pretty sure I've heard of people climbing on the Palisade Cliff though. Access may not be as cush as google maps might lead you to believe. If you spend the time looking around up at the ridges and such, there is a lot of potentially interesting rock in the Packwood area. Its just not close to any major metropolitan area. If you do work this crag, you'll want to be pretty public about it, lots of active traffic is the only way to keep wet side climbs clean. Even Index, close to the hordes of Seattle, loses lots of climbs to the moss.

Sobo, you're a real "the glass is half full" kind of guy, I like that about you.

Thanks to ncascadesranger for posting their end, but there are a couple of pieces of valid criticism you should take to heart. I agree with Fairweather, it should have been possible for the ranger to issue that permit in the field. It was a waste of fuel and time to make that round trip back to Marblemount. I'm not saying it should be routine that folks can plan on skipping getting the permit and just doing it somewhere in the hills if they run into a ranger, but the staff should have some flexibility to deal with special situations. The rangers at the counter could also stand to have a little customer service training. A 30 minute wait as the next in line is really poor management, and there are several ways the counter staff could have handled that much better. Val and company could also have been more assertive and butted into one of those extended conversations, but not everyone operates that way and it would best if the folks at the counter were more aware. I appreciate the work the folks at NCNP do, its a fabulous park that is run very well, and I've had lots of great experiences with the rangers, though I have on occasion found the center in Marblemount to be a time suck. There is always room for improvement though, so please don't let feelings of defensiveness blind you.

I'm glad you guys got to bivy at that spot on the ridge, one of the nicest places I've ever spent the night in the Cascades.

Oh, Rudy, I'm sorry for the thread drift. You know, come to think of it, trad climbers are predominantly caucasian, so if you're advocating for their genetic superiority, that must make you a racist prick troll. Better now?

Hi Kirk: I'm not offended, but I wanted to be clear that folks have other recourse if they have problems with my work here. It might actually be a relief if I were forcibly removed from the task of shoveling out the Augean Stables. "I was simply trying to point out (again) that the enforcement of the new "no personal attacks" policy seems to apply to some while not applying to others. Don't you find that odd? At least worthy of comment, in my opinon." I'm taking your input to heart and considering how best to apply this policy. I haven't had a lot of input from the Admins as to how they want this implemented. I'm inclined to not worry too much about Spray, or I'd have to sterilize every political discussion, but I agree there's room to level the playing field out in the other forums and I'm certainly not free from bias with regard to cutting friends slack. I'd encourage you and others to use the "notify moderator" button if you see something you believe to be outside the user agreement. I can't guarantee that I or another mod will act as you wish, but your input will be considered and appreciated. "I doubt that buckaroo was offended by your comments" I don't think he was either, but Raindawg wanted to make such an issue of it that he posted the same thing twice with different "bullying" images, and not having any input from Buckaroo, I'm just acknowledging that my opinion is just based on my assumptions.

Yeah, pretty darn bitchen, thanks a bunch.

Nice scan Dane, thanks.

Ex-Cannibal Seeks Woman's Hand — In Holy Matrimony Jakarta Globe | August 12, 2011 Remember the convicted cannibal Sumanto? The Central Java man is hungry for love. “I've been yearning for a wife,” Sumanto, a patient at Haji Mustajab Mental Institution in Karanganyar, Purbalingga, told news portal Tempointeraktif.com earlier this week. Sumanto was sentenced to five years in prison in 2003 for stealing and eating a woman's corpse, an act he believed would give him supernatural powers. He was freed in 2006 after receiving several sentence remissions and has stayed at the private institution since then. The head of the institution, a local religious leader named Supono Mustajab, was vital in Sumanto's rehabilitation and psychological recovery. Supono taught Sumanto to practice Islamic beliefs, including fasting during Ramadan. “Sometimes he also goes to tarawih [the Ramadan evening prayer] at the mosque,” Supono said. For the past few weeks, Sumanto often expressed worries that no woman would want his hand in marriage. “The important thing is, my wife has to be a woman and she has to be religious,” Sumanto said. “She doesn't have to be beautiful but if she looks like Dewi Perssik, [indonesian actress and singer] it couldn't hurt either.” Sumanto's case grabbed headlines during his trial in 2003 and "Kanibal Sumanto," a film based on his life story, was released the following year.

Not everyone shares your opinion Bill, and I wanted to make it clear they have recourse they are welcome to pursue if they wish. I also wanted Buckaroo to contact me is he feels as oppressed as Raindawg and Kirk imagines. I'm not fishing for compliments.

As I stated: "All necessary information has been posted and discussed, plenty of position statements have been issued and any individual has as much input as they need to come to their own conclusion, so get off your soapboxes, this thread is done. Go start another one in Spray if you want to continue down the path this thing is going." The topic was the replacement of a 30 year old bolt on a route at Index, not the decline of Western Civilization. Pretty much all possible positions had been stated and were there to be evaluated by any concerned climber. The person who replaced the bolt posted his reasoning and said if you were really bent out of shape about it, by all means, go remove it. Does anyone really think there was more to be said on the subject? Did anyone think if they just put the right slant on their post they were going to change minds and bring about a thought revolution in climbing? Bullying Buckaroo? Oh please! If he was serious in his suggestion that gear protected climbing was an important piece of the advancement of the species under Darwinian evolution, and that women are driven to mate with bold climbers, then it was a stupid and silly idea deserving of derision. More likely he was engaging in a sprayworthy Modest Proposal, and that makes it pretty funny, hence the decision by some to take the bit to Spray and expand it. If Buckaroo is hurt or offended my use of the same term he took as an avatar (note, I did not capitalize, the the word refers to a rooting tooting cowboy) he's free to express his concern and I would gladly modify my words for the sake of his feelings. That I should do so because Raindawg imagines something? I repeat myself: Oh Please! Anyway, I stand by my decision to shut that thread, as it was done and going nowhere useful. Its my job here to make those sort of judgement calls. If you have a complaint about my actions or words, please take it upstairs to Jon or Porter, or even any one of the other mods. Moderators have been reprimanded or demoted in the past, feel free to mount a campaign for my removal if that's your desire.

Are you asserting that free soloists suffer from higher rates of HIV infections, what with no protection and all that?

A friend of mine ordered one of those test tube babies, that little tyke is quite the buckaroo!

All necessary information has been posted and discussed, plenty of position statements have been issued and any individual has as much input as they need to come to their own conclusion, so get off your soapboxes, this thread is done. Go start another one in Spray if you want to continue down the path this thing is going.

Ditto on the Benadryl, there is some form that is an instant dissolve in your mouth, less mess and smaller than the syrup. My wife has had bad reactions in the past, carries an epi pen on the advice of her doc, but the immediate Benadryl has really mitigated her reactions. She gets stung far more often that I do. I think the reason may be that the doc told her to take Bendryl, grab her epi pen, and go to the nearest fire station to have them monitor her. For some reason she seems to like having a bevy of hunky firefighters hovering over her. For those of us with lesser reactions, the application of a stick type antiperspirant stops the pain, keep rubbing it on for about 10 minutes. I think you want the kind with aluminum in it.

Because sometimes climbers are in fact singled out in these things. Take Cave Rock near Lake Tahoe for example. Climbing got banned for tribal spiritual reasons that particularly objected to having women touch the rock, but a major highway running right through the formation was okey-dokey.

Oh, and thanks to EJH for both doing some research before replacing, and registering here just to explain his actions, and not getting all riled over the question either. Folks, that's just good citizenship.

A minor correction in terms Scott: retro-bolt refers to adding bolts where none had been before, re-bolting is what you're referring to, the replacement of old corroded bolts with new hardware. People defending the thrill of old mank seldom understand that when a fresh 1/4" rawl drive was placed, it was pretty damned good and confidence inspiring. Climbing 25 years later on the rusted crud that remains, you're not re-creating the second ascent. I like that line: Climbing stupid does not make you a hardman; it just makes you stupid Oh, and just a note peoples: we're in the Climbers Board, not Spray, so lets talk about the issue and not each other's perceived character flaws. Thanks

I just want to point out that I must be prescient, I called the play back in Nov 2010 link

Coming down the Cascadian with no snow is even worse, be happy you had what you did! Great route, I think it was my first successful time up Stuart after 3 failures. It's funny, I'd always had the impression that just doing the upper ridge was short and not worth it, probably based on a foreshortened photo in 50 Classic Climbs. After doing the complete I decided the upper ridge alone was well worth it, and went back a few years later to take my son up it for his first alpine route.

Oh, really tall, some are a full half pitch! I think everything lowers off with a 60m, though there may be some exceptions to the rule.