Off_White

I dunno, pooping on someone's ropes is rude, but its hardly the worst offense someone can commit climbing. I knew a guy who dropped the belay rope while the leader was 80' off the deck on Stoners Highway (Middle Cathedral in Yose) and ran away because of some rock fall. Way way worse than water soluble poo. Not assisting another climber in distress at high altitude because you want the summit? Orders of magnitude worse than fecal insults. Both of those WOS guys have had children, I'll wager they've had to deal with a lot more human waste since those days on El Cap. Other people's poop is just titillatingly icky, grade school humor, but we're all far more familiar with it than we'd admit. Wings of Steel is still a stupid route put up by a couple of yahoos who'd never climbed El Cap, taking an insane number of days to put up a 9 pitch variation. While the second ascent made it clear they didn't drill nearly as many holes as they were accused of, they still drilled far more than they claimed. Not only that, they put out an overblown book about their travails, total drama queens. Yes, they were very poorly treated and didn't deserve that, and the Valley has always had a cliquish in-crowd, but those two boys are really lucky they didn't take up surfing; they'd have suffered some real physical harm with never a whisper of hope for an apology. Thumbs up to Steve Schneider for his apology, but he's a bit of a drama queen himself, and has certainly spun it well enough to up his cred. The tearful apology still smells of shameless self promotion, but folks sure are lining up to congratulate him on how brave he is. It's as if Reality Television is now defining reality, action doesn't matter if its unwitnessed and not sprayed to the world. Will I get points if I call up the Del Mar Safeway to apologize for shoplifting a roll of slice & bake chocolate chip cookie dough (kind of like poo) back in 1972? Will I get more points if I get Good Morning America to film me doing it? The WOS guys set out to try and revise their reputations for posterity, recasting themselves as the hardest aid climbers ever for a vastly expanded climbing population who wasn't around back in the day. They seem to have achieved their goal, but I still see them as a couple of whiners who failed to get over sleights from their youth. Whatever, it all still amounts to exactly what it did before the retro-polishing of history, a hill of beans. Guess I'm getting all curmudgeonly in my dotage. Bah, humbug.

Okay Laura, signed and done. Who's getting the bribe money or some other financial incentive to make this change? It smells fishy to me

But you seem to be okay with your Goatse screensaver

Nannies are like that.

I wasn't talking about Kev in my post, but hopefully that should be clear from my link

If you want to lighten your load, for $500 I'm pretty sure you could get some dirtbag to carry your gear for you on next summer's outings. Pretty good advice above, but they were falling down on your request for smart-ass comments.

Dolt? Yes. Dolt.

Nice time of year to see some pics like that, thanks.

I dunno who it will be or under which administration, but I'll wager the contractor wears a black hat.

My wife assures me that, "Any guy using that phrase hasn't a fucking clue." Yeah, that's an exact quote. I understand its very uncomfortable.

I have goats, and I assure you there is nothing reliably secure about a fence. I wonder who'll get the contract to build the thousands of miles of useless fence?

Dane, I wish I lived closer so I could do some of those little things for you, but I am thinking about you and looking forward to the next time I see you.

He didn't miss a beat, I suspect Dru has a photographic memory, or most certainly a good memory for photos.

I've got Steiger's guide from the mid eighties, so I think I'm headed the opposite direction from what you're looking for. It's a great guide though.

The DEA sucks green donkey dicks. I know of at least one occasion where $40,000 disappeared between the arrest and the inventory getting filed. In a number of ways, law enforcement is indistinguishable from a criminal gang. Woe unto those who rat on a fellow gang member. FW, I'm not worried about anyone seeing my signature on any petition I deem worthy of support, this one's no different.

Well, I might agree with his quote that "stupid people are ruining America" but I'll wager we have different folks in mind.

That looks great, do you have any pictures of the route?

No, Republicans wouldn't stoop to that kind of tactic, they're honorable servants in service to freedom and truth.

Whoa, now hold on here. This thread is 41 pages long? Are you people fucking nuts? I know Muir on Saturday, I'm a friend of Muir on Saturday, and this is no Muir on Saturday.

Trip: Joshua Tree Thanksgiving - Date: 11/24/2011 Trip Report: We got outta Dodge for a 9 day trip to Southern California. First stop was San Diego for family & old friend visits, along with an afternoon tide pooling at the beach After a few days we headed off to meet a crew of friends at Joshua Tree for the holiday. These folks have been doing Turkey Day there for nigh onto 20 years, and my wife and I are occasional attenders. It was great to get out there and play in the forest again. The weather was awesome this year, not too windy, sunny, afternoon highs in the upper 50's and lows around 30. We've had much worse at this time of year. Climbing as a mob is seldom epic, and not necessarily photogenic, but we all had a great time with a little leading and a lot of top roping. I'd forgotten just how run out the norm is there, especially in the middle 5.8 to 5.10 grades, lots of ground fall potential and DFU territory. Here's a shot looking down, the stuff explosion is all from our crew Of course, there was plenty of time for lounging in the sun and gabbing, telling lies, and reading. We stayed in Ryan campground this time: smaller, lower key, and a little easier to corral 3 sites together. Each afternoon had a steady line of folks on the classic Headstone formation. Campfire living can be pretty grand, and this was a prime example. I've known some of these folks for 30 years, so there's lots of yarns to be told and things to reminisce about. It's also an anniversary of sorts for me; my first time climbing was Thanksgiving weekend at Joshua Tree in 1973. The Thanksgiving dinner itself is pretty damned amazing, easily the equal of any I've had at a house. Multiple dutch ovens are deployed, including a specialized one for cooking a turkey. The menu included: 16 lb turkey 9 lb ham Sausage stuffing with gravy Spaghetti squash with garlic & parsley White sweet potatoes (grown in Moab) Scalloped potatoes Sauteed broccoli Cranberry sauce Baked apples German chocolate cheesecake (from scratch on site) Brownies with whipped cream And of course beer, wine, hard cider, Martinelli fizzy cider, and schnapps It made for that classic OMG holiday stuffed feeling, and we ate ham sandwiches all the way home, coming up the east side of the Sierra with a layover with some old friends in Truckee. Travel conditions were excellent for all legs of the trip, with only a couple sections of mild rain. Hot damn, I'm already psyched for next year.

Yeah Rob, I don't suppose he's a good guy at all. All those women, and none of them seem to think he should be president either.

Correct, along with Janie Diepenbrock

They would have had to go climbing for that, and the verbiage makes it obvious that no climbing was done. I think its a valid argument that the pass should not be required if no services are supplied - no garbage and locking the toilet would seem like breach of contract. If you were worried about ticketing, could you park out on the highway and walk in, same as one might do to circumvent the NW Forest Pass?

Best you surrender, it is the future. [video:youtube]

American History X is a pretty interesting movie, but it does have a few genuinely cringe inducing moments. That scene popularized the concept of curb stomping, but word is that it doesn't much happen outside that film.