Off_White

I tumbled into this site this spring, and I’ve really enjoyed it. Let me tell you a little story about a different agglomeration of climbers: In 1985 I moved to Tucson, to accompany my girlfriend and her son when she enrolled in grad school at the U of A. The one person I knew in town was Evetree, a friend from Evergreen in Olympia. Through her we met a fully formed community of climbers, and very swiftly had good friends and an active social life. All told, this group comprised 40 to 50 individuals, from stellar athletes to rank beginners in their first and in addition to climbing in various collaborations, they had parties, hung out, went to dinner, and did things that a group of people do. Not everyone loved everyone else, there were definite factions of sport and trade, a bonafide bolt war complete with community meeting where three guys dumped a motherload of bolts and chains they’d removed from the Beaver Wall (Mt Lemmon) on the floor, two rollicking Beanfest parties per year, and a fair share of rivalry and oneupsmanship. It was a lot like this virtual bunch of active posters, and it was glorious. My girlfriend (now wife) and I made friends there in our year and a half of residence that we’ll know for the rest of our lives, and in fact went out to see a band in Seattle last night with one of them. I’ve grieved to lose three of them to death: one with crampons on, one on rock, and one to cancer. Some of those folks are more acquaintances than best buddies, but to encounter each other on the road in the still relatively small world of climbing is to be old friends reunited. We traded yarns, shared personal histories, swapped beta, talked about dreams and ambitions, and made some of those come true. Hanging out here on this board feels a little like finding that bunch of people in Tucson all over, and its been splendid to be around a bunch of climbers again. Its true that there is not a cohesive climbing community in the NW, and as the membership of this bunch shows, we’re spread out over a lot of territory. So much information about the areas we climb and the routes we lust after are only revealed in conversation. Finding this network has opened up my eyes to just how many people are doing so much stuff in a way that two decades of toiling away in obscurity with a small pool of friends never has. Fred’s Cascade Alpine Guides are a great piece of work, but the amount of information you can find and elicit on this site is much greater. Yes, there are some very ugly interpersonal incidents that happen here, and several individuals get abused to a horrible degree (Scott’teryx and Allison spring to mind from recent history) and yet it is remarkable that these people shrug it off and persist in hanging out with us. There was a spectacular mutual evisceration between Dwayner and Peter Puget a few months back (which many missed because it happened late at night, and those involved went back and erased their posts) that I think is actually the personal “jump the shark” moment for Dwayner, since he hasn’t fully really recovered his jaunty attitude since. People do get snippy with each other, but face it, humans can be irascible. Aside from a couple pub-clubs (a great tradition by the way) I’ve not much encountered any of you in the physical world, but that’s mostly due to the demands of that vast part of my life that is NOT about climbing, but I know that meeting some of you for the first time will have some of that same sense of old friends reunited, because I have come to know you through your words. Some may call this thread a troll, but I think Dwayner asked a great question that has moved many to both reflection and great responses. I hope to meet some more of you at the rope-up in Der Leavenworth later this month...

Matt, I figure thats because you're a more "total experience" priented climber than a purely goal oriented one. I completely agree with you, and my sense of loyalty has also led me to climb with friends who are less than fun (in the not really clicking sense, not the irresponsible sense) for years.

The "dynamic belay" debate has been around a long time. I remember when it was over whether a sticht plate put too much absolute force on the system, and you were far better off using a hip belay that allowed for more "slip" in the belay. Everybody's got to make up their own mind, but I'm tying in. If you're worried about the force on a given piece, use a screamer.

quote: Originally posted by troubleski: When do you think the snow is generaly best there.???.. Winter is often best. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I've got the same kind of scheduling thing, got to pick a time quite a ways in advance to have everything else in life arranged for a longer abscence. If you can't be flexible about when to go, the only answer is to be flexible about destination, and go where the snow is good.

quote: Originally posted by Greg W: Oh, and Fuck Off Trask Not without an invite he doesn't! Football, thats the game with the funny shaped ball and no sticks, right?

Yup, I can sometimes be heard talking to myself, "check my knot." I'm something of a coelacanth of the climbing world, having learned in the days of hip belays, goldline, and Robbins blue boots. I always attach the belay device to my harness, and myself to the anchor, and set myself with a stance that minimizes the actual load on the anchor. I'm also very fond of an anchor for the belayer, even at the base of sport routes, perhaps because I often outweigh my belayer, but also because having a belayer tied in shortens the leader's fall. I do sometimes like the "place two pieces instead of one" and place gear frequently right after leaving the belay" ideas that others have mentioned. Particluarly if it has been a long ways between placements, I think it would really be a bummer to have that piece pull, so I'll place another nearby. I also really hate the thought of falling right on the belay, and want some pieces between me and that kind of a test. I usually carry a largish rack as well, preferring to have it and not need it as opposed to needing it and not having it. Another side topic attached to this whole issue is reconsidering advice offered on this site a few months ago about overcoming fear by intentionally falling on your gear. I have a really hard time overcoming my trad upbringing with the whole "the leader must not fall" agenda. I'm sure it keeps me from pushing my limits, but an incident like the recent one does nothing to make me want to change my ways.

Hey there Pindude, I don't mean to belittle the snowpack out there, and my observation is somewhat limited (I only look when I'm thinking about going) but I kept seeing Steven's get multiple 18" overnight dumps and Schweitzer report 1" in 7 days for the same time period. Maybe you're in the track but sometimes the good stuff gets wrung out of the clouds before it makes it over to you? For what its worth, Mission Ridge mostly seems to get much less snow out of a storm than the areas closer to the crest (but one could argue that its better snow). Does stuff further east, like the Big Mountain in Montana still count as inland NW? There's some great hills out in your neck of the woods, and I wouldn't discourage anyone from checking them out, I'd just say check the conditions and predictions before heading that far away. Schweitzer is just about top of my list for places I'd like to be for a big dump.

quote: Originally posted by Greg W: Glad you didn't say anything mean; I would've been forced to tell you to bite off! [/QB] That would be sooo rude! Besides, I've been nothing but polite on this thread, and I somehow doubt that Erik would bite me regardless of what you told him.

this is supposed to be the world's funniest joke: Two hunters are out in the woods when one of them collapses. He doesn't seem to be breathing and his eyes are glazed. The other guy takes out his phone and calls the emergency services. He gasps: "My friend is dead! What can I do?" The operator says: "Calm down, I can help. First, let's make sure he's dead." There is a silence, then a gunshot is heard. Back on the phone, the guy says: "OK, now what?" Here's the story: http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/10/03/joke.funniest/index.html

quote: Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: A guy walks into an auto parts store, and says to the guy at the counter "I'd like to get a gas cap for my Yugo." The guy at the counter thinks for a moment, and replies "OK, that sounds like a fair trade." Friends don't let friends drive Yugo's.

I've been to Schwitzer once, and it was a great hill. They hadn't any siginficant snowfall in a week, but we still mangaged to cut up some fresh stuff in the trees. If you were there for a big storm, it would be fantastic, but they aren't really in the Cascade storm track, so you gotta watch the weather. We left Schwitzer and bailed for Bachelor, where we got a major dump that made for a couple of the best days I've ever had at an area. But then again, I love those big trees (and my helmet)

A long ways back, 1980 or so, I recall white circles spray painted on both the trail to Lake Constance in the Olympics (which had some monstrous blowdown at that time) as well as on the rote.

which would make the crucial date May 19th 1915.

Okay, on Lassen, looking at Shasta?

Well, its a .... charming... summit. If I had to guess, I'd say you were standing on St Helens looking at Adams, hence those summit rocks were not in that configuration before May 18th, 1980. [ 10-03-2002, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Off White ]

quote: Originally posted by Greg W: Bwaaahahahahaha. Bling Bling, Blah? Blee Blo blee, yo. Twice in one day, I find myself agreeing with Greg W. Next thing you, it'll be raining frogs in my frontyard.

quote: Originally posted by gapertimmy: TUFF RULZ yeah yeah, tuff is cool, granite is better, but anybody who's ever touched the stuff knows Tenino Sandstone is the best ever.

There's also the matter of context and individual personality. Anybody who is aware of DFA and his flaming left wing liberal leanings would automatically know that the lad was making a joke, whereas anyone who familiar with Trask's knee-jerk right wing scatological spew would know that he doesn't mean harm to anyone on this board and he was making a joke also. Scott'teryx on the otherhand would be obviously making a joke, and various and sundry would be compelled to tear him a new asshole for his chutzpah. Isn't life strange?

quote: Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: Fuck that, man! As a person on the cusp of generations "X" and "Why?", the Doctor finds convenience to be a key factor in any number of decisions. You wanna go fucking around with your primitive and inconvenient extension cords, be the Doctor's guest (not that the orderlies would ever let you near electricity or tools, of course). DFA will happily zip from project to project with nary a concern for outlets and such. Doctor, with all due respect, thats because you are an Autocad using fool who doesn't actually have to make a living in a blue collar world. Worry about a cord on a small deck? Get into a tight dank rotting crawlspace or some overheated insulation filled ceiling cavity and thats when it really matters. Much as it shocks me to say it, GregW and Trask know what they're talking about.

(Argh, there's a whole nother page! Am I gumby or what? I'm spewing about the Bear Creek topo here, for you johnny come latelies) I'm not laughing at you Cavey, its the bit on the topo that they label "glacier." I grew up down there and the Sierras were my first love (in terms of mountains), but if there is one thing that Washington has a leg up on over Calfornia, its glaciers. I don't think there's a crevasse in the Sierras you could fall into if you tried really really hard. Still, ya gotta love that beautiful clean granite. [ 10-03-2002, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Off White ]

Ahhh, never mind Cavey, I sussed it out. Bear Creek Spire. I'm headed down that way end of October.

Oh Caveman, you bastard, that looks indescribably delicious on a day like today. Details?

quote: Originally posted by Greg W: quote:Originally posted by trask: New? I'm buying a new cordless drill; can't decide between the Porter Cable and the DeWalt 14.4-v I'm speaking from the contractor end of the field. I've got a 12v DeWalt that's been splendid. I really like the balance, and the voltage seems just fine. If you need real oomph, you might as well break out the corded tool, and by the time you get really beefy, like the 18v tool, the damned thing weighs so much it tends to defeat the "light and fast" appeal of cordless. That said, the 12v cordless DeWalt saw doesn't have enough guts except for quick casual cuts. I had to rip a 5' doug fir 1x4 the other day for a quickie countertop support, and after the cordless saw groaned and slowed down, I broke out the trusty handsaw and did it just like the old days. It did not, however, make me nostalgic for the old hammer and handdrill method of bolt placement.

Your creative spelling gives it away in one message!

At Mission Gorge in San Diego, where I learned to climb, we named a ledge "zone ledge." It even had a fixed bong.