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Off_White

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Everything posted by Off_White

  1. I think Marty should be commended for debating here, most sport route developers wouldn't bother, and I very much appreciate the line both he and Dane draw between opinions and the person who holds them. Passions run high on the topic, and being able to argue in a civil manner calls for committment from all parties. to you all. Myself, I feel rather conflicted on the subject, and I like Lucky's case-by-case approach. On the one hand, the trad end of Dane's poll: No chipping, no holds added, no bolts next to natural protection, and no messing with someone else's creation have pretty much been ground rules since I started climbing in 1973, and I've always believed in them. The thing is that life is rather more gray, and I find I've engaged in some of these things. I own a crag, as in it's on my property, and legally I could grind it flat and show movies on it if I wanted. The rock is an old sandstone quarry, so it was man made, but it sure feels like you're climbing when you're on it. There is a route I bolted four artificial holds on. It provides access through a band of bad rock so you can get up to a pretty damn good route. It doesn't matter how much you scrub this bad section, shit just keeps coming off. Now, it's possible to scrabble through the crap in an unpleasant and sketchy manner, but after I pulled a briefcase size chunk off onto my leg, I decided it was just bullshit, and if I didn't do something different the route just wouldn't be worth the hassle. Consequently, I put the four holds on through the most solid section of rock, which did not otherwise offer access to the route. Sometimes I feel a little silly, because even with the holds it's still easy 5.10 to get onto the route, but given that the crux is middling 5.11, it's not inappropriate. It's not beautiful, but it does make the route worthwhile. So, am I in the wrong? Down at the far end of the crag there is a 5.9/10a fingertip lieback in a corner. It's the easiest and most straightforward route on the crag. I don't have a lot of confidence in the ability of the stone to hold small nuts and tiny cams and the position of the route makes the placements difficult to achieve and inspect, so I put four bolts on the face to protect the 50' long route. It would seem silly to me that the easiest route at the quarry would be the one most likely to kill you, and I really don't want any dead bodies on my property. I was the first to clean and climb the corner, so I am the FA as well as the legal owner. Am I in the wrong? There's another route, a great 5.10c outing, which also is one of the easier lines here. A significant flake that plays a big role in the climb was somewhat loose. If I pried it off, it would leave a scar, and make the route notably harder. Instead, partly from an agenda of wanting to have a few moderate routes here, I carefully used backer rod to create a dam and filled part of the back of the flake with construction epoxy. If you look closely, you can tell the hold has been reinforced, but it's neither obvious nor messy. If I had pried off the flake one of the few 5.10's at the quarry would be gone. Am I in the wrong? Now, I understand, this is a bizarre case given the ownership of the crag. It wouldn't occur to me to do these things at Leavenworth, Darrington, Tieton River, or even Vantage because I wouldn't feel empowered to make that decision. None of those places are "home" even in the sense that I climb there a whole bunch. But I can imagine the decision process that led me to my actions being applied by someone else at another crag, and so I feel conflicted by the whole thing. Does anyone know how you would fill in a chipped hold that wouldn't look worse than the original scar? I might have a few ideas, but they would be somewhat esoteric and require skills and materials not commonly accessible. I think chipping is even worse than bolting a hold on, since holes can be filled, but chipped edges don't disappear well. But even here there is a gray area. When does cleaning become chipping? In some of the FRAC (funky rock awesome climbing) areas that sport climbing has clasped to its bosom, the line can be a little blurry. Where one person thinks they're cleaning things up and making the route possible, others might think they're manufacturing holds. Even well meaning upgrades can be botched and leave a worse mess than they intended to fix. The Dike Route on Pywiak Dome in Tuoloumne is a good example. The route is one of the earliest bolt protected climbs done up there, and was very run out because the leader was simply too terrified and unable to stop and drill. I think later on a couple bolts were added, but the route has remained a run out affair that requires a certain amount of poise. Nonetheless, it has been very popular, and sees lots of traffic. The last time I did the route (which was years ago, things may have changed) someone had upgraded the rusty 1/4" bolts with modern 3/8" and heavy stainless steel hangers. When you're 50 or 60 feet out, that sort of thing is appreciated. The problem was that instead of removing the old bolts, they simply placed new ones nearby, and I think there was a botched hole or two as well. The net result, while safer and done with good intentions, was rather ghastly and ugly. Replacing unsafe bolts is widely lauded as a community service, and yet this was wrong. Can retrobolting be acceptable? I have a friend who put up stacks of scary routes in Tucson. He had an amazing ability to move slowly, securely, and slothlike over 5.10 face climbing with such confidence that protection wasn't that much of an issue. Drilling by hand is tedious and time consuming. Consequently, there are some great lines that see no traffic. My friend no longer lives down there, so he is generally unable to change things himself. He's open to the idea of making some of these routes safer for others, but the logistics involved in arranging for appropriate proxy retro-bolting coupled with the fact that others might be offended and chop the additions have kept anything from happening. If the FA party is willing to see things change, I think retro-bolting may be acceptable, but it does take effort and communication, and particularly when you throw in layers of different generations and folks who fade from the sport, it would take a determined effort to secure that approval. Anyway, after all that blather, you can see where I'm going. In theory, I believe in the rules, but in practice I can see blurry edges that make the application more of a process than a binary operation.
  2. NOHHH shit.... one of the biggest hypocracies of modern times. Yeah, how can anyone be AGAINST offing an innocent fetus and FOR frying someone who rapes and murders a 12-year old? Incredible! Definitely "one of the biggest hypocracies of modern times." Now, I'm not a believer, much less a theologian, but I would think that old testament bit about "Thou Shalt Not Kill" would seem pretty clear. Did I miss the part where it said "unless they deserve it" or "unless your secular ruler tells you to" or "unless they aren't in your clan" or any of the other loopholes people imagine they get to use? I think it pretty much means that any Christian (Jews too, right? Doesn't the old testament apply to them as well?) who supports the death penalty is an out and out hypocrite who for damn sure can't criticize anyone else about moral relativism.
  3. The Yosemite Decimal System was actually developed at Tahquitz, so one could assert that the grades there are really the standard. I don't recall them being notably stiff or sandbagged, that was always the Joshua Tree 5.9, but it's been a long time since I was down there. I think the point is that even routes with seemingly moderate grades will be fun and exciting. You could do White Maidens Walkway at 5.1 or Ski Tracks (5.3 I think) and still have a hell of a good time.
  4. If you've got more than one day, also consider Suicide, right across the valley. It's more about face climbing as opposed to Tahquitz's plethora of cracks. Serpentine, Sundance, New Generation, and Valhalla (in ascending order of difficulty) are all stellar multi-pitch outings.
  5. Perhaps this will help staunch the flow?
  6. A lot of those law enforcement fundraising things are actually scams, and the respective agencies net a very tiny percentage of the take. It's boiler room telemarketing, and the folks involved have nothing to do with law enforcement.
  7. Yup, I am a parent, and I did think it was sort of funny. My kids thought it was funny too. It's funny precisely because it preys on a parent's worst fear, and as a modification applied to items in common use it has a long tradition. Sort of reminds me of that picture of a screw you could get to apply over the heart image on one of those "I heart chihuahuas" bumper stickers. Seems like most humor has something at it's core that someone finds offensive, it's just the way people are wired. It wouldn't be funny if everyone thought it was funny.
  8. I rather enjoyed my visit to the Flesh Pits. I thought the bones and rawhide added a certain ambiance, and at least nothing was bloated and flyblown. Missed the condoms and graffiti though, as well as the rabbit plunkers. Random gunfire in a boulder warren would tend to negatively color my experience.
  9. Yeah, what's the deal Merv? You make fun of sport climbers, but babies are off limits?
  10. Wednesday is becoming my favorite day of the week.
  11. Because I thought my line was pink, and I didn't want to get into some kind of pink and blue gender embarassment. Mine is definitely the, umm, err, red line. The angle of the photo Scott used, similar to the picture in the CAG, compresses the width of the face. The other photo is more like what you see on approach.
  12. Here's a pic from Uncle Tricky in the Gallery, original supplied by Dru. Gato Negro on the right. Scott, UT wasn't sure about the line, does this look correct?
  13. Listened to today while grouting tile and running trim: The Deathray Davies: Midnight at the Black Fingernail Polish Factory Moutain Goats: We Shall All Be Healed Raveonettes: Chain Gang Of Love Rocket From The Crypt: assorted stuff mashed together on a cd Ramones: Anthology
  14. I don't think there are that many folks on this board who take bouldering that seriously. Distel is certainly your most likely candidate. I grew up in San Diego, so one of my criteria for great bouldering was something you could go to for an afternoon or after work. As I now live south of Olympia, there is no great bouldering. Well, actually, there is one very clean white granite erratic in front of the office at the Quality Rock quarry just west of Tenino. It would be available after hours, and has perhaps 8 problems on it. It took the two largest loaders at the pit working together to lift it a foot off the ground, so it's a fair size chunk of stone. Last time I asked, they didn't want to sell it. Bouldering has never really been a destination sport in my mind, so even if you spilled the beans about the treasures of the Okanogan I'd be unlikely to travel 6+ hours for it. Granted, I think there are more and more folks who feel differently, but it's more a diversion than a passion in my book. I can appreciate someone else's love of it though, so I won't slam you for the particular climbing niche that gets you psyched.
  15. Off_White

    spray blows

    You need to post a link to your turd's TR of Cutthroat, that'll cinch the deal.
  16. I think my two longest falls were held by a #10 hex and a 1/4" bolt. I double the comment about the finger through the hanger. Getting "de-gloved" is no laughing matter.
  17. No, Caveman has not been banned in quite awhile, his limited presence here of late has been voluntary.
  18. Yeah, that should help offset those 30,000 unregulated Mexican trucks they're letting in. But you're right, it sounds like a good thing.
  19. Everybody has to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer.
  20. Repo Man quote. If you've never seen it, you really should.
  21. Wasn't that a Fox special, "When Excercise Machines Attack!"
  22. Off_White

    "minor correction"

    Enough with the tantrums everyone, go take a cold shower.
  23. I think Libertarians are interesting because the defy the common wisdom of a scale that runs from Liberal to Conservative that everyone fits on somewhere. They're all over the map, and as such are a genuinely different party, not at all a fringe offshoot of either of the major parties.
  24. I saw your title and assumed you were talking about Royal Robbins.
  25. I've always liked the juxtaposition of a Grateful Dead sticker with an NRA emblem. Olympia has a fair number of gun toting hippies, so I've seen it on a number of different pickups.
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