ivan

if you recall joe, the first 5 pages or so of this thread involved you saying that - alot did something change?

don't think i'm gonna be aroudn ken

"same as it ever was" [video:youtube]

caught us all by suprise - larry n' steve got pissed on as well - sure brought the mozzies out in a vengeance afterwards too sharp edges aren't the issue on silver crow - a million pounds of rock shearing off in your face b/c you had the audacity to actually touch it is - a 10 foot by 10 foot section above the roof sounds like a dirty hippy bongo band from afar as you cross over it

3rd time was not the charm today - kyle did pipeline and i launched up the silver crow only for the temps to suddenly plummet and the rain to begin - skerry above the pin, but this time was able to start into the traverse, only to reverse it and bail off towards the top of windsurfer as it came on to blow - next time?

might want to replace the shoestrings i left as anchor tat on pipedream 5 years ago before rapping on 'em though missed you steve - said rain storm struck will i was making my 3rd attempt on silver crow - sigh....

love that climb - bet fine pictures are coming along - i'm intrigued at how you skipped the chimney w/o having to do the rap

i need to party w/ the unicorn

And yet you can still afford to smoke pot every day... shows how well you know me how is it a personal attack to inquire wether you support the exploitation of your fellow man? a personal attack would be to call you a scat-munching ass-clown what was your question?

most private schools pay much worse than public schools, and the typical private school does no better than the typical public school i've haven't met more than a dozen or so private school teachers, but not a single one of them was happy w/ the environment or pay, and they'd all moved on after a couple years - private schools have big problems w/ staff turnover - the typcial conception of a private school is the blue-blooded swanky affairs of the ivy league feeder system (which do pay well, as they should, since they're for rich kids) but that's not the reality it's plenty easy to have a strong union and a shitty performing school - teachers are but a single part of the equation afterall, no? come by my house sometime w/ your bean-counting materials and please evaluate how high on the hog i'm living on my public salary if i hadn't been fortunate enough to have parents who could pay for my education, help me buy my house, give me their old cars, buy my kids all the big-ticket kid items they required, etc. i'd be drowning in debt - as it is it's nip n' tuck every month and pbr n' shitty wine n' a climbing rack that scares the fuck out of most folks i climb, and nothing better to look forward to than that for as long as i stick w/ this line of work

most of the anchors on The Nose have chains if the deal w/ the park was not to use them then well enough, though i don't understand the reason as chains do come in low vis finishes and holy hell i think bill's got 300 some odd of em

so, all those in favor of paying slave-wages, raise yer hand. and why should anyone respect your opinion when you hold others' lives in such low esteem? should i be convinced your indifference is enlightened just b/c you have a big bank and a # of equally morally-bankrupt motherfuckers on your side?

Rules for Teacher - 1915 1. You will not marry during the term of your contract 2. You are not to keep company with men 3. You must be home between the hours of 8:00PM and 6:00AM unless attending a school function 4. You may not loiter downtown in ice-cream stores 5. You may not travel beyond the city limits unless you have permission of the Chairman of the Board 6. You may not ride a carriage or automobile with any man unless he is your father or brother 7. You may not smoke cigarettes 8. You may not dress in bright colours 9. You may under no circumstances dye your hair 10. You must wear at least two petticoats 11. Your dresses must not be any shorter than two inches above the ankle

the public benefits when teachers are paid well and work in a good environment - what well qualified teacher would want to work in a place that treats him like a slave? do you want your kids' teachers to be indistinguisable from wal-mart employees? teacher unions organized precisely b/c that's how they were being treated, as slaves - how do you propose public employees exert influence to insure they're treated fairly? i suppose they could use the election process, but that's much more unwieldy and requires getting a lot of people who have no direct connection to the problem to get involved.

i'm fine w/ the market largely determining who gets paid what - supply n' demand n' whatnot - my point was that, no matter the job, you ought to be able to make a basic living, i.e. have a decent roof over your head, food on the table, n' the ability to see a doctor when botflies have taken up residence in your colon - if the boss can't afford to pay a decent wage, he can do his own damn work

Fixtit. the krauts have top tier public schools n' organized teachers and there sure are plenty of shitty private schools in our country too

hmmm....but on a tuesday? perhaps if i change what i'm drinking i'll be able to understand you?

illuminate me then, esse - i'm not the dumbest person in the room most likely, and i've worked a variety of jobs, some w/ good owners/bosses, some not...what is it that you see/understand that i don't?

What happens when the collective bargaining (or leveraged bargaining) of a union creates a wage that makes the end product uncompetitive in the market place? What happens when a public workers union gets a public official elected and then it comes time to bargain for said union's wages? If you think large corporations have exploited the workforce then I could easily build a case that large unions have not only exploited the worker but also the large corporations. Large unions have milked corporations dry and then left the works unemployed when the company couldn't (or wouldn't) afford them any more. Public employees unions fit in this bill as well, coffers filled to the brim but refuse to cover the union members they forced to go on strike. Coffers so full they could donate enough to swing an election. Coffers so full but won't cover the pay raise they scream for in a budgetary deficit. j_b isn't espousing fair wages though, he's got his eyes set on wage control and socialized industry. He just won't admit it because then he loses the support of normal left leaning people. Why do you think he has hinted at "reasonable restrictions" on free speech? Its all just part in parcel. of course unions aren't panaceas - they've become large organizations like the companies too, and require intelligble participation by their members to balance out the power they've acquired - i'm not smart enough to percieve the path to the perfect world, economically speaking - ya'll can feel free to scream yerselves silly over that - i just figure unions are the lesser evil though, and am active in my own local in an attempt to understand it and use it to my benefit. read "nickle and dimed" last month - interesting short book by a journalist who spent a couple months "undercover" trying to live the life of a minimum/low-wage earner and the obvious conclusion of course is that it's essentially impossible to live w/n any decent standard, no matter how good a worker you are. my gut tells me that, if a guy puts in a full week, works hard, no matter if he's doing heart-transplants or just cleaning the floor after the operation's done,that he ought to be able to have stable housing, food ont he table, healthcare and the abilty to spend the last decade or two of his life in comfortable retirment. i'm not dedicated to any particuliar approach to getting to that result.

w/ yer mug, i can't imagine those're cheap!

hippy!!! size matters i reckon. seems much easier for small companies to treat their employees well - the bigger the organization, the more impersonal the relationship between owner and employee becomes, and the easier to screw them. kinda like slavery in that regard, perhaps? reading narratives of former slaves, there seems a similiar trend - satisfaction w/ servitude was much more common in small settings, much less so on huge plantations.

Brother...I am as left wing as they come but, it is also the responsibility of the person who "agrees" to the job being offered to say yes or no to it for whatever $$$$ is agreed upon. That is capitalism. On the other hand run-away capitalism is a bad thing. It's the role of collective bargaining to arrive at an agreed upon compensation. Asking employees to negotiate on their own isn't serious. Even 19th-early 20th century workers understood that, which is the reason why we have vacations, the 8-hour day, no child labor, etc ... or at least what's left of it after 30+ years of regressive policies. word. workers only have bargaining power when collectively organized. historically, big business owners always sought to divide and conquer their employers, often violently, and sure as hell didn't provide any opportunity for "negotiation" w/ the vast majority of their workers. does that make me a communist to think, nitro? is it possible to be pro-union w/o being percieved as a das-kapital quoting krazy?

unions are clearly bad - otherwise walmart would have them!

steve (tg) you used to be a super-regular 'roudn here and a great patron of the cc.com spray-o-verse - how is ole'boy?

i could do that! if....like....um....