Alpinfox

Who is going down there from Seattle? When?

Are you really tall? I think p3 is significantly harder than p2, but if you were tall (>6'3" or so?) you could probably reach the big edge above the crux. P3 is also harder to protect than p2.

:cough: :cough:

Bullshit. You most certainly can. Not with the rope running through your gear, but if you clean your gear on the way down, a 60m rope reaches just fine. But why would you do it that way? Just belay up the second from the top and then rap off. 60m rope works just fine for that.

Olympia climber reaching for the last of the afternoon light, 600 feet off the deck on Lovin' Arms: to Tim and Tony who shared the route with us. Here is a trip report from my first trip up DHLA in Oct.2003 with Mr. Peru: LINK

That was Moses and ______ on Heaven's Gate.

LINK

I've got an extra copy of issues 10 and 11. If anyone is in need of those and would like to trade a copy of 1-5, 7, or 16, let me know.

I NEEEEED to see that video!

WHERZ THE DAMN VIDEO!?!?!

Perhaps suggesting this as an alternative solution in your letter to the NFS would be a good idea. One could point out that a voluntary donation system would probably cover the overhead costs as well as eliminating the need for law enforcement rangers/campground hosts to patrol the area.

Here is a sample letter: Hi, I'm, like, totally opposed to having to, like, PAY for stuff, 'cause paying for stuff, like, totally is not as cool as getting it for free. OMG! Can't you just, like, put toilet paper in the bathrooms, and just, like, get some volunteer to clean them every once in a while? And OMG! those things could use an air freshner or seven (GAG ME WITH A SPOON) and how about some water out there too! OMG! Yours truly, ____________________ edit: Yeah, I know I'm being a dick, I just want people here to talk about why they think they should get these services for free. Is the Grasslands campground so important to society that all taxpayers should subsidize it? If not, don't you think a user-targeted fee system is the best way to cover the costs? I think $2-5/site/night would porbably cover the costs of the bathroom maintenance. That seems reasonable to me. However, it probably would NOT cover enforcement, so it would pretty much be a voluntary system. I hate the ludicriously priced, Nazi-run campgrounds that are managed by private, for-profit companies like "Thousand Trails". $16/car/night for a patch of dirt to pitch a tent on, a picnic table, and a Honey Bucket??!?! That's bullshit. Plus, most of that money goes to the company, not the NFS.

Email is the most easily dismissed form of correspondence. A phone call or snail mail letter are probably more effective. Here is some more contact info: Crooked River National Grassland 813 S.W. Hwy. 97 Madras, OR 97741 (541) 475-9272 You can submit a comment/letter to them through their online feedback form HERE

Do you really think an email is going to do anything? Perhaps a written letter would be better? In any case, it seems that fees are inevitable. There is service being provided (restroom maintenance and TP) with no fee required. How long did you expect that to continue? Anyone have any idea what the annual cost of maintaining two of those toilets is and supplying them with TP? Wild guess: Maybe $8000?

and you aren't affiliated with them at all right? Don't get me wrong, it sounds like it has a fine mission statement, but how about just being honest and saying that you are advertising your new organization?

Pitch two looks especially sweet on that NW face. Splitter straight-in hand crack you say?

The duodess is an option (one that I didn't pay for). The color difference that you noticed results from the weave pattern having a directionality to it such that if you look at it from one angle you see the red threads more predominantly and if you look at it from the other direction you see the blue threads more predominantly. If you bend one strand of my rope over at any point along it's length so that it runs anti-parallel to itself, the two strands appear to be a slightly different color. Check this picture: See how it looks redish on the left and bluish on the right?

You and Hansel must have been . The Mammut Revelation is NOT a bipattern rope. I agree that it was stupid of Mammut to make the 5m marks the same pattern as the middle mark, but it shouldn't be very difficult to know whether you've pulled 5m or 30m through the rap anchor.

I remember hearing something about a bunch of trout fingerlings being stolen from some hatchery recently. Anyone have a link to that story? Seems likely that whoever is responsible for the Leavenworth hatchery theft likely took the trout too. I wonder if it's some ALF-type group doing a "free the fish" thing or if it's just common thieves.

It's not hard, but it is slower, slightly less convenient, and maybe slightly more error prone (see Matt's comment) than an accurate middle mark.

I wrote up a little blurb about safety while rappelling, but thought it might be a bit outside the scope of this thread, so I started a new thread for it. HERE IS A LINK

I’m not a certified climbing guide, and I’m sure there are better treatments of this subject spelled out in more detail in books somewhere, but here is my attempt to give newbie climbers (as well as reminding myself and other non-newbie climbers) some pointers on how to stay safe while rappelling. Three common and potentially fatal errors while rappelling and how to avoid them are discussed here. The first is mis-rigging the rappel device such that only one strand of rope runs through the device and carabiner. When the rappeller weights the device they begin free falling as the free end of rope whips through the rappel anchor. To avoid this accident, develop and follow a systematic protocol while rappelling that tests the rappel system prior to the rappel. An example of one such system is given here: 1) rig your belay device for the rappel 2) while you are still connected to the anchor via your daisy or a sling or whatever, take up all the slack and transfer your weight onto your rappel device. 3) Lean back. Jerk backwards. Really weight that thing. 4) If you have mis-rigged your rappel device, this test should reveal that error 5) Only then should you disconnect your daisy/sling from the anchor and start rappelling. The second error is rappelling off the ends of evenly-matched strands of rope. Some people choose to try to prevent this error by tying knots in the end of each strand of rope. (Note that tying the two ends together is NOT recommended due to twisting of the ropes resulting in a big mess). If you use this method, make sure to use an adequate stopper knot such as a double overhand or figure-8 that will not “roll”. Many people prefer to not tie knots in the ends of the strands due to the chance that the knot will become jammed in a crack or behind a flake. If you choose to not use stopper knots (and even if you do use stopper knots) look below you periodically while rappelling to confirm that BOTH strands continue below you and reach the ground (or the next rappel station). Another step that may prevent this error from becoming fatal is to have a prusik back up knot located above your belay device. The idea being that if you do rappel off the end of the rope, the prusik will tighten up on the rope and leave you hanging from the prusik rather than falling to the deck. However, folks who have tested this theory in a controlled situation found that when one rappels off the end of the rope and starts falling, the tendency is to tightly grip the prusik with one’s hand which prevents it from engaging. The third error is rappelling off the end of one of the two strands of rope that run through the belay device. This can occur when the rope is fed through the rappel station unequally. This MAY have been the situation that recently resulted in the death of a climber on Condorphamine Addiction. To avoid this error, it is a very good idea to clearly mark the middle of your rope with a dye especially made for that purpose, or buy a rope that is pre-marked. Remember to periodically remark your rope as the dye will wear off with use. It is probably a good idea to use a dye made especially for ropes (rather than a sharpie or some other permanent marker) as there is some controversy about solvents in markers potentially damaging the rope fibers. Beal is one company that makes a dye intended for use on climbing ropes. If your rope is not middle marked, be sure to match the ends while feeding the rope through the belay station to insure that the two strands will be the same length. When doing double-rope rappels, be aware that the two ropes might not be exactly the same length. Not all “60m” ropes are really 60m. Again, be sure to periodically look below you while rappelling to insure that BOTH strands continue to your target. CLICK HERE for another thread discussing some of these same issues.

Just to be extra extra pedanticly clear, here is how you can avoid dying due to this error: 1) rig your belay device for the rappel 2) while you are still connected to the anchor via your daisy or a sling or whatever, take up all the slack and transfer your weight onto your rappel device. 3) Lean back. Jerk backwards. Really weight that thing. 4) If you have mis-rigged your rappel device, this test should reveal that error 5) Only then should you disconnect your daisy/sling from the anchor and start rappelling. I know we've probably all heard this before, but I thought I'd spell it out explicitly for anyone hoping to learn the take-home message from this accident. I don't ever do the prusik back-up thing while rappelling, I hardly ever tie knots into the ends of the rope, and I seldom wear a helmet while cragging, but I pretty much always do the steps above.