sayjay

Sorry to contribute to thread creep, but I just can't let this kind of B.S. pass by...And I'll preface my response by saying that I am a climate (global warming) researcher. I am not a flaming liberal, and I do not believe the sky is falling, I just have spent a long time studying this issue and I hate to see misinformation thrown about. There is no question that the phenomena of "global warming" (an unfortunate tag, as it leads to the misconception that we will see warming everywhere) is real -- the physics behind adding greenhouse gases to the atmosphere leading to an increase in the *global average* temperature is exceptionally clear. Like, more solid than "smoking a pack of cigarettes a day increases your risk of getting cancer". The difficult question is how this average temperature change will manifest in things like sea level rise, frequency and intensity of El Nino and similar events, changes in rainfall distribution, and of course changes in temperature patterns. How fast the changes will occur and exactly how severe the changes will be is uncertain, but that there will be changes -- with winners and losers -- is not disputable. And yes, the global climate has changed many times in the past. But we are inducing changes in the climate on a timescale of 100 years that nature is used to deal with on more like a 1,000-10,000 year timescale. And the earth didn't need to support 6+billion people during past climate changes. No one is saying the earth is going to end -- just that it may not be able to support everything that's on it right now, including us. quote: "Other researchers can detect no discernible upward trend, and some offer a counter argument. Based on the retreat of the northern-most lines capable of growing oranges since 1850, some believe that the weather is generally getting colder, not hotter. The 4 to 12 inch rise in the level of the oceans over the last century is disputed." There *was* satellite data that indicated a slight cooling of the upper atmosphere that was much-sited by those wanting to dispute global warming. Last year, an error in the satellite calibration algorithm was discovered and when it was corrected the satellite data switched to showing a warming trend that is consistent with the ground-based data. (For the skeptics out there, these corrections were applied by the scientists who had originally published the data, so it was not a matter of some outsider going in and tweaking the data to give the answer they wanted).There are no data sets that show a global average cooling over the past 100-200 years.To cite "the northern-nmost lines capable of growing oranges since 1850" as evidence of global cooling is absurd. "Global warming" does not mean warming *everywhere*; some places will cool because of changes in atmospheric dynamics brought on by global warming. Also changes in rainfall patterns and other factors can shift growing regimes, not just temperature. (I would equally dispute a single data point such as the disappearance of butterflies from a certain region as evidence in favor of global warming). As for sea level rise, you are correct that we cannot yet determine if there have been changes in sea level due to human-caused warming; the signal just isn't big enough yet. But there is no question that if you warm the ocean, it expands, and sea level rises. And there is little question that on a 100-yr timescale sea level will rise due to anthropogenically-induced global warming -- enough to flood some small countries such as Barbados and the Maldives, as well as our own Everglades. quote: "Arguments against the hypothesis center around that fact that manufactured carbon dioxide is a small fraction of what is naturally released (e.g., by wetlands, rain forest fires, and during volcanic eruptions). It is argued that, in the face of such massive contributors, [manufacturing contributions are negligible]." Yeah, and if I add $100 to a jar every day, and take out $100 every day, and JoeBlow comes in and adds $1 to the same jar but doesn't take anything out, who's got more impact on how much $$ is in the jar?Sure, nature releases way more CO2 into the atmosphere than we do -- but it also REMOVES it (trees, ocean biota, etc). And it does a lovely job of balancing what it puts in with what it takes out, and it even does a good job of absorbing a portion of what we put in -- but not nearly all of it. The data showing an increase in atmospheric CO2 concentrations is indisputable, and it is indisputably linked to anthropogenic emissions. No one other than Rush Limbaugh (and apparently this engineering dude who clearly doesn't know what he's talking about) dispute that. Re: methane. Methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, on a per-molecule basis, but methane only accounts for 20% of the human-induced change to radiative balance of the earth. CO2 is responsible for 70% of the change. This is not a disputed fact.Also, if you are worried about methane, you should be aware that if we warm the earth enough by continuing to add CO2 to the atmosphere at the current rate, the northern permafrost might melt and release enough methane to make the cows' contribution look like a drop in the bucket.Also, why the heck do you think there are so damn many cows out there: cause *people* like to eat em!! I'm with AlpineK, if you want to worry about your impact on the environment as a climber the first thing you should try and do something about is how much gas you burn driving to the cliff/mountains.

I can't make PC next week so maybe I should keep my trap shut, but... I'll step up anyhow and suggest the Old Town in old Ballard (Ballard Ave, near Tractor Tavern, Hatties Hat, etc). Good size, good beer, don't expect it'd be crowded on a Tues night, and layout is good for pulling tables together. Food is so-so but hey if you drink enough...

Yeah, but those 3 people are capable of generating 1800 peoples' worth of spray...

okay, maybe i'm a total knucklehead, because no one else seems to be thinking along these lines. so i'll throw it out there and y'all can tell me if i'm just being a dork. i'll preface this by saying that i only have 55m ropes and won't be cutting any of them up...so when i have simulclimbed i've set up like i would with two people on a rope on a glacier -- fold rope into 3rds, so one person is at 1/3 and the other at 2/3 of the way along the rope and each person carries 1/3 of the rope with them. my rationale is that if one person falls and gets hurt you have some rope to work with in a rescue. though i have to say i like the idea of doubling the rope for alternate clipping/drag-reduction... oh, and i also think a full rope length is good to have w/ you for raps. having only 30' of rope to rap w/ could suck, depending on where you are.

Is this a *joke*, or what???

that makes three of us... especially if AlpineK is buying!

maybe your problem is that running shoes foot jam better than they smear...

quote: I heard the best rack builders are the plastic surgeons in Beverly Hills or does southern Florida rival them hmmm. dunno. but I bet Brittney Spears could tell you...

Reading over everyone's replies here it sounds like folks favor TCUs over aliens. True? If so, why? I have a bunch of aliens and love 'em, partly because they are narrower and so can fit in smaller latteral pockets. (I think they are as narrow or more so than the equivalent TCU even though they have 4 cams...) Wondering if I'm missing something...

read "Fast Food Nation" and you'll get over eatting at McDonald's sump'n quick...

Gordonb- try: http://www.smithrock.com/flash/routeupdates/index.html

a bit of a tangent, but... 10+ years ago I was heading up to climb the N Face of the Grand Teton and my partner and I saw this guy who looked JUST like Yvon Chouinard. So I go up to him and I say "Hey, wow, you look SO MUCH like Yvon Chouinard." "Yeah" he smirks, "that's cause I am". I felt like a dork... nice guy, though. (oh, and no, we didn't make it. got hailed off. so did Yvon.)

quote: Peter Puget wrote: Now just where is the proof these are man made jugs? sorry to disappoint y'all...http://home01.wxs.nl/~bigwilly/picz/britneys_breasts.swf

quote: allison wrote: W's little graphic of the humping/sodomizing smiley faces is a prime example of the sort of crap that a lot of women with perfectly functional senses of humor would find tacky and possibly offensive. I do. How about a little wit? allison, I may (or not) share your opinion that that creative little icon of you and AlpineK was offensive but I have to say it was no more offensive than the myriad of other sick stabs that get thrown around on this site between guys. You frequent this site, you know it's a locker room in here, and you choose to participate. To draw the "female" card at this point seems kinda, well, lame. If you're going to play with the big boys, expect them to treat you like one of the big boys - which is what they did. (i.e. gregm's equally juvenile and offensive ray/trask icon). If you think women should be treated equally with men (recall your post re: women's olympic downhill vs. men's olympic downhill??) and you're gonna spray with these boys, don't expect them to show more restraint with you than they would with each other. It's really undermining otherwise. I would have sent this to you in a PM rather than posting it, but your claimed to represent the opinion of other women and I for one don't want to be treated with kid gloves just cause I'm female - at least not by the climbing community! sarah

for VW vs Stone Gardens debate, see: http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001607

quote: Sounds like Mount Fuji. When I climbed Fuji-san I could touch the pack of the person in front of me as could the person behind me touch my pack. Thousands of people in a line like ants-- it was like nothing I've ever experienced in the mountains. You must've been there in the summer. Last April (still "winter" season) there wasn't a soul on it... When we told the locals that we were climbing Fuji they insisted that no one climbs it in winter and that we would probably die up there. Guess not so surprising given that some knucklehead had gone up there gearless the week before and tumbled 3,000' to his death. On the other hand, it's a cake-walk w/ ice axe and crampons. Just one big snow field to the summit. Pretty surreal experience as the summer trail and summit are covered in buildings, stone markers and tori gates... not quite the same experience as Rainier... [ 03-06-2002: Message edited by: sayjay ]

I dunno bout that... trad climbers are just inately more sexy than sport climbers, no matter how ripped.

I'm with Dru... I've had this experience of trying to take someone out to learn and running into swarms. A bummer, cause if you want to turn someone on to climbing it's hard to do when you spend half the day hauling them around trying to find a route that's open. Not saying that mtneers have no right to be out there, but there are problems with these large groups dominating areas.

check out the Lake Julius Ice TR... it has info on Scottish Lakes High Camp, cost of hauls in, etc. The web page it links to has a link to the SLHC site. oh, and yes there is awesome backcountry skiing up there. have fun, and let us know what the snow was like after this week's precip!

Ski in is ~9mi. on a logging road. Easy skiing, but it is a bit of a slog -- I've done it and prefer to shell out the bucks and use my time in the high country. Part of the trip up (~half) can be done on a narrow x-c trail and that shortens things a bit but not a lot. So depending on how fat your wallet is you can decide if you'd rather save the $$ or the time... W/ the ride in the ice can be climbed as a day trip- If you only shuttle *in* it's $30/person. Ski out is downhill except ~1/2 mi. and is a fast trip.

by the way, there's *great* backcountry skiing in this immediate area as well... so you can get ice and freshiezzzz in on one trip! highly recommend it-

ahhhh! now *that's* better!

dru, man... keep that up and i won't get anything done in the next hour...

damn. i just thought i was having a really fun flashback... ps. i liked orange!

okay, fine, if you can't beat 'em... Why do men want to marry virgins?-- They can't stand criticism. Why is it so hard for women to find men that are sensitive, caring, and good-looking?-- Because those men already have boyfriends. A brunette, a blonde, and a redhead are all in third grade. Who has the biggest boobs?-- The blonde, because she's 18. Why does Mike Tyson cry during sex?-- Mace will do that to you. Why did OJ Simpson want to move to West Virginia?-- Everyone has the same DNA.