JayB

Good suggestions. Sounds like facing the rock and sliding and/or backpedalling is the technique that has worked best for most people. I’ll keep wearing the double Carhartt’s and hoping that I never have to use it. I found a thread on rec.climbing that addressed the same issue and found an account of a fall that sounds a lot like my own, and a description of an interesting slab climbing get-up. One more fall like the last one and I might be sporting an outfit like the one described there myself…. “My road rash is healing nicely. I took a 35 foot slide down a 5.9 josh slab last week and ended up up-side-down myself. I'm not sure how long the fall took - but time certainly compressed and I heard my partner say, "Oh shit." and I started back pedalling and trying to keep my hands off the rock. After about 25 feet the rope or a ledge flipped me over and I landed on my side - whacking my head on the rock. My partner had mentioned that I forgot to put my helmet back on and so I stopped at the first bolt and had him toss it up. Thankfully he was paying attention with the belay and took up some slack. I was shaken (not stirred) and it took a few more days of leading to get my head strong again. The bruises I have on my back, elbow, and calf are pretty huge”. -- Jason Liebgott Northern CA Climbing “I don't think Karl Baba knows this - but I'm certain I saw him in Tuolumne in 1996, doing slabs with a big wall harness, over the ankle style shoes, thick pants and knee pads. I was impressed. I think skidding down on your padded knees and pants with some good shoes on is the way to go. Not many will have the presence of mind to do much else.” - Nate

quote: Originally posted by Uncle Tricky: Hey Jayb, I'm curious specifically how you fell--were you sliding on hands and knees? Did you tumble? Did you tear up your hands trying instinctively to grab the rock and slow yourself down as you fell? Where did you get the worst "slab rash?" I've never taken a big fall on a slab, so my thought are just conjecture and I'd be interested in hearing more informed opinions. Well, from what I can remember the fall went slip (just as I was trying to make it to a better stance), tumble, skid. Most of the damage seemed to come about during the final "skid" phase, as I was pretty discombobulated by this point and not able to formulate a very successful skin-preservation strategy on the fly. I sort of vaguely recall trying to re-orient myself using my hands and feet, and I think that my knees got into the act as well - consequently my palms, knees, elbows, and forearms to the brunt of the damage. The rope also caught behind my leg and gave me a pretty good burn there as well. The burned hand (and knee) teaches best....

I chose a slab at Peshastin for one of my first ever leads a few years ago, and found myself way out over the last bolt, unable to move up or down, with my feet slowly giving way as the sand beneath them turned into little ball bearings...a half a second later and 30 feet lower I sized up the damage and pondered calling my nearest blood relative and asking for an impromptu skin graft. I didn’t learn much from the experience besides a health respect for slabs and an aversion to falling on them, and that double Carhartt’s would have been much more appropriate attire than shorts. I certainly did not come away from the experience thinking that there must be a “better” way to take a fall on a slab – e.g. a technique that one could use to minimize the carnage other than - not falling. However, I met a guy this summer who and after claimed that the best way to minimize tissue loss, should you find yourself about to skid down a slab, was to run around and run down the face. Said it helped him conserve a fair amount of flesh during a long fall on Topographic Oceans just a day or two before. Having the presence of mind and the balance to turn around and run seemed like a tall order at the time, but since then I’ve heard others repeat this and still more claiming that (even more improbably) giant backward steps were the way to go. So here’s the question: Anyone out there ever tried this or know anyone who has? I don’t plan on ever taking another fall on a slab if I can help it, and if I do there’s a strong chance that I’ll be wearing the said double Carhartts, but…should I find myself in that position again I’d be willing to give the running thing a try as it doesn’t seem like you’d be any more messed up than if you had just applied the skin-brakes from the get go.

Crazy Erik: There's actually been quite a bit of chatter back and forth about the situation at Vantage. Most of it is contained within the "Access Issues" forum -the good news is that there's already an effort underway to restore the routes that had their hangers stolen. Cheers,

Here's Nate Beckwith's Gri-Gri modification instructions.... http://www.geocities.com/nate_beckwith/grigri.html

quote: Originally posted by pope: And if I were to propose a solution to all the acrimony over bolting, I'd say places at which sport-climbing is well established should be left alone by old farts like me who are offended by the place. But at the same time, I think other cliffs should be left alone by the bolt slingers. Deal! Seriously though....I've been in touch with the generous fellow who is organizing the retrofix and will put in an order for the hangers and rap-station from MEC this Friday. If you want to help him out also, send me a PM and I'll provide you with his contact information. Help him out if you can. P.S. If anyone knows the identity of the hanger thief, please send him to Shelf Road so that he can steal all of the *&%ing home-made bed-frame hangers from the routes down here and we can get them replaced with real hardware....

quote: Originally posted by Fairweather: dry Coloradohigh altitude tumbleweedswhere are the glaciers? Saint Mary's the placeglacier or snowfield debate small at any rate

quote: Originally posted by vegetablebelay: Colorado for now is 6 In get an extra syllable for rhyming!

Colorado nowless than a month is the dateWashington my state [ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: JayB ]

Lead the pillar man no hangers its killer you big blood spiller man

quote: Originally posted by chucK: How about if I led Chossmaster? Isn't that free-standing pillar like 5.7 (and a bolt-free lead) if you chimney up between it and the wall? Chuck Chossmaster will only get you 40oz of King Cobra. Clip'em or Skip'em will get you a chilled Zima or wine cooler.You'll have to use nuts slung around the bolts on the 11a face to score the pitcher... [ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: JayB ]

quote: Originally posted by chucK: Actually, some are probably still leadable too, just not as safely. You lead that free-standing pillar without the hangers and there's a free pitcher of whatever you want waiting for you as soon as I get in state.

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: Dwayner -Think of it as modern poetry with a touch of French. Postmodern, even. Not a bad rendition I must say. For a truly world-class skewering of that genre check out "Transgressing the Boundaries: The Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity." at:http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/transgress_v2/transgress_v2_singlefile.html This actually got published in a trendy post-mod rag before being revealed as a hoax and caused an uproar not seen since the days of the Piltdown Man.

Oops - that was for the Two-Cam unit...

From a post on rec.climbing... > Hi Milkdud> Have you any report on the 2CU yet?> T> Hello T, Got to use the 2CAM in a variety of placements along TripleDirect on El Cap, at Mission Gorge polished rock, Mt Woodson, and BigRock. The shallow nature of the 2CAM is great for AID placements, as longas you put it in with the shallow pin side against the back of thecrack (common sense)..but hey, I futzed with it anyway. Think of it asa more secure surface area contact, that used to be a bit dicey on 2lobes of your 4cam units. The range is marginal at best, and be very careful of fullretraction and pushing the unit in, as it has cut-outs on the lobeswhich promote overcamming. Have yet to take a fall on one, but did kick an 80lb haulbag for a5' test hit. The 2CAM didn't slip, but did tweak a little at the lobepivot, such that the lobes don't match flush when fully released now.I'm certain this will be addressed by Splitter, as they are superresponsive to comments. They're not as finicky as Aliens when dirty, and yet to becleaned..I'm just going to see how much they can gum up before havingto tap them open The sling is spectra grade, and works well. What I really liked isthe large loop, which is great for an extra inch or two on AID. Iwouldn't Fifi it though, as any flare/scar you'd be putting these intowouldn't like a direct outward pull. In fact, a Screamer usually foundit's way attached to the 2CAM as a reflex. I hope this helps out. I'll be in the Sandias next week, and willreport any 'new' stuff about these neat units. Cheers -M

Lucky: Thanks for the update - the problem may be nonexistent by the time I finish my move, but I imagine they'll accept a donation in my absence if the fix goes in before I get out there I checked the site and sent an e-mail to one of the contacts listed on the page with questions about the particulars of the retrofix efforts over there, and will keep everyone who is interested in helping out posted. [ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: JayB ]

Thanks Erik: Anytime you replace a hanger you a presenting someone with the opportunity to steal it. That's a risk I'm willing to take in order to insure that whoever ripped them off in the first place does not succeed in his ambitions to render these routes unclimbable - if that was in fact his intention. If we're just dealing with a cheap bastard who needed a few dozen hangers, hopefully he has enough now and will leave the area alone. If nothing else, the fact that the peak season will be underway soon and the crowds will follow should make it more difficult for anyone to mess with the routes there. Anyhow, when and if this hanger replacement gets off the ground I intend on securing them to the bolts in a manner that will at least insure that the thief has to work very hard scoot off with them. If this really is someone who stole the hangers out of strong objection to the bolting that has occured at Vantage, maybe he'll speak up and the community can attempt to engage him in a dialogue and address his grievances in some fashion. As far as the cooling off period is concerned, it'll be at least a month and a half before I have any role in replacing hardware at the Coulee so perhaps this will allow things to settle down a bit/and or give whoever ripped them off a chance to chime in.

Last I heard someone was considering organizing an effort to replace the rap anchors and hangers that had been stolen from the routes out at Vantage this Spring. I'm not sure if that's still on or not, but until I hear an announcement to the contrary I'll assume that that's DOA. I'll be moving back to Washington during the first weekend of March, and will have a couple of months to play before I start looking for a job out there. Consequently, I'll have more than enough time to organize an effort to replace the hangers on the existing routes. I'd plan on setting a date in the latter half of March. I checked the prices at MEC and it looks like you can get Fixe 3/8ths hangers for $2.00 Canadian. At those prices I'd be willing to pitch in for 40 hangers and a rap anchor just to get the ball rolling. If you're interested in joining me in this effort (donations of gear, money, or time) or can direct me to information about a similar effort that's already underway, please send me a PM. Note: All I intend to do here is replace hangers on existing bolts. I have no intention of adding any bolts to existing routes or to install them in new ones. Please keep that in mind before sending any comments my way. Cheers,

Allison: Sorry to hear about your injury - I've sustained knee injuries in two of the past four seasons that have put me out of commission for 3 months at a time. Hell, I tore my left MCL twice in the same season and had to put away the skis for a while and take up snowboarding! ! It truly sucks when an injury keeps you away from the things that you love. I mentioned this in the post on slabs a while back - I run into sport climbs all the time where you'll deck out in a big way if you fall before you make the second clip, and these are hardly r-rated routes. So Allison: Thanks for sharing your story. It brings to light a risk that one commonly encounters on sport-climbs that seems to have gone unacknowledged on this board by some folks who maintain that there's no difference (in terms of risk) between leading a sport route and top-roping it.

Climber's fall linked to bolt By Amanda Cherry and Christine Reid Camera Staff Writers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A bolt that was fixed in a rock may have been compromised, causing thefatal fall of an experienced Fort Collins climber over the weekend. Michael Sofranko, 28, died Sunday of head injuries after falling about100 feet off Happy Hour Crag in Boulder Canyon. The popular climbing area near Cob Rock, within view of Colo. 119 andabout a half-mile east of Boulder Falls, has many routes with fixedgear. Sofranko, who was climbing with his girlfriend, was rappelingdown the face about 3:30 p.m. when the accident occurred, said BoulderCounty Sheriff's Deputy Samuel Hard. "She didn't even see it happen," he said. She had rappelled down just before him and was busy packing up, Hardsaid. Members of the Rocky Mountain Rescue Group were investigating whethera bolt Sofranko may have been using failed. "It sounds like he had been climbing for a while and was competent totake care of himself, which makes it all the more baffling," said JeffSparhawk, spokesman for the rescue team. Members of Sparhawk's team are still piecing together what happened,including inspecting bolts in the rock and talking to climbers whowere in the area. "Something happened, and we're not sure what yet," Sparhawk said. Happy Hour Crag has a number of technical routes, many of which arerated for advanced climbers. Sofranko, who was not wearing a helmet, did not die immediately, Hardsaid. A medical professional flagged down on Colo. 119 reported he hada pulse but that his heart then stopped and she began CPR. He waspronounced dead about 15 minutes later. Sofranko was a regular at climbing gyms in Fort Collins, including TheWall at the Gym of the Rockies and Inner Strength Rock Gym. While he hadn't climbed at Inner Strength Rock Gym for nearly a year,Mike Hickey, a climbing instructor at the gym, recalled Sofranko. "From what I remember, he was a very competent climber," Hickey saidMonday.

I'll keep looking and post a better report if one becomes available anytime soon...

Todd: Apologies if this isn't useful - If you haven't already done so, you may want to post your query on rec.climbing, as there's a fairly large contingent of folks from Boulder/Ft. Collins who post there and usually have a wealth of beta to share on routes in the park. My partner posts there from time to time and usually gets no less than 10 folks who chime in with good info. Sadly enough, one of those folks was Mike Sofranko...

quote: Originally posted by Lambone: That sucks... Too bad that report doesn't tell us jack shit! If he was a compitent climber, would he be rapping off of one bolt? If it is a popular area, would it have one bolt rap stations? [ 02-05-2002: Message edited by: Lambone ] Very puzzling. Apparently the guy was pretty active in the park and was climbing all sorts of stuff in the IV/5.10-5.11 range in that setting, so the claims that he knew his stuff seem well founded. What really has me confused here has been the conclusions, or lack thereof, that the folks who have analyzed the accident have come to. If it was bolt failure it seems like all you'd have to do is take a look at the rope and look for rap gear clipped to a hanger. Since it's a popular TR area, the anchor should be relatively easy to get to and inspect also. Perhaps they were so busy attending to the fallen climber that they declined to look into these things at the time of the accident.

02-03-02It just keeps getting fatter at Mt. Lincoln, baby! So much ice in the main gully that crevases will start forming soon, entirely new lines forming up to the left of the main flow that weren't there in the early season. It'll be in until mid-may.... Ha! Ha! Ha! Okay, no death threats. Seriousy though, if anyone out there will be in the vicinity, all of the info from the earlier posts is still good, with the only differences is that the two main pillars are now so sun-rotted and hacked that they are definitively done for the season. To the left of the main flow: 1 main flow starting at 2+ and ramping up to 3+ and maybe 4- depending on the line that you choose. About 170 feet long, will support two parties, and a big tree to rap from about 25 geet back from the lip. Lot's of water flowing on the far left side, right side flowing but much thinner. 1 minor flow to the left side, two mixed lines.-The line on the right side of the arete probably goes at WI4 M4, a line just to the left in a small gully is sporting thin ice but is getting fatter by the hour. Probably WI4 M2/3. Gear on both lines looks to be stubbies as well as a couple LA type pins. If that's your kind of line have at it.

quote: Originally posted by erik: repalcing the bolts over and over and over again only gives the bolt thief the reactions she/she/they want!!... It seems to me like leaving the routes hangerless and unclimbable, rather than replacing the hangers, would be giving this individual exactly what they want - which is why I'll pitch in and contribute whatever I can to their restoration.