JayB

quote: Originally posted by Greg W: [ That was until Jay got kicked out for eating Brownies. [/QB] Kicked out! I got a merit badge for that...

quote: Originally posted by Dennis Harmon: I have to state that the youth of America tend to be liberals and that liberals bug me anymore. They seem to think that anything goes and that everything is relative... that strong opinions are bad because you could be accused of being opinionated. Generation-Xers, and the following generation which I choose to call Gen-A-holes, are a breed apart from what this nation was built on. Think about it. These kids have not known war or sacrifice or given anything back to this nation. They have only taken, and taken, and taken and been spoiled rotten by their parents. It's little wonder that they are wont to walk far from their SUVs and are rampantly destroying the rock with their cordless drill technology. They are selfish... and I'll keep on saying it. Dennis While I understand how someone had actually served in combat might resent the fact that those enjoying the freedoms he had fought to defend (I'm making an assumption here)were not treating them with the amount of reverence that he'd like to see, this sort of vague bitterness and hostility towards a younger generation that hasn't fought in another war is certainly not common to all veterans. My family is full of veterans who served in every war this century, and I have yet to hear them using their service as an excuse to issue blanket denunciations of an entire generation. Further, I've never heard them suggest that unless you've served in combat, you've done nothing of service to your country. Beside the members of my own family, As I grew up I got to know other veterans of WWII, one of whom flew 30 bomber missions over Germany as a tail gunner, the other who served aboard the USS Arizona and was later awarded the Navy Cross for his actions. I can remember seeing the bomber pilot working with some solvents one summer that I knew to be carcinogenic, and asked him if he knew what that stuff could do to him. He smiled and informed me that yes, he knew the risks well enough, and followed with a story about a bomber run in which he kept slipping on the floor while trying to operate his gun and couldn't figure out why, until he looked up the fuselage and saw that every other gunner on the flight was dead or dying, and it was their blood he was slipping on. After they landed he counted 276 bullet holes in his portion of the plane. After finishing his story he smiled and said "and so you see, after that, I've never really worried about anything." What was so amazing about these men was the fact that despite all of the horrors they experienced and saw while serving, I never heard any of these veterans express bitterness over the fact that other generations would not experience the loss of life and tragedy on the scale that they had, and they certainly never suggested that not doing so compromised one's identity as an American. Sure they had their differences with the next generation, but were wise enough to chalk this up to their advancing years as much as any real defects belonging to the generation that they had raised and shaped. What I did hear them say, however, was "Thank God no one else had to go through that. That's why we fought. So our kids and grandkids wouldn't have to." It's noble sentiment that's perhaps not shared by all veterans, but certainly a credit to those that do. [ 06-26-2002, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: JayB ]

quote: Originally posted by Dennis Harmon: JayB, I still want an honest answer to my original question... What in the heck have you done for your country? And I still bet that you can't answer it. Dennis I was still in high-school at the conclusion of the Gulf War. I registered for selective service, and was never drafted. Had I been called to serve, I would have gone. On a related note, I grew up just outside of Ft. Lewis around men who actually saw combat first-hand in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. It's not my place to speak for someone who has actually been to war on behalf of our country, but from what I can remember they took a mighty dim view of anyone who attempted to derive moral authority from the sacrifices that they made without having shared them.

quote: Originally posted by Dennis Harmon: JayB, I never said that I'm a Vietnam vetern [sic]...So now, tell me again, what exactly have you done for your country? Dennis So anyone who has not spent time in the Armed Forces hasn't done anything for their country?

Keep your fingers crossed for these guys.... "LIMA, Peru (Reuters) - Three U.S. mountain climbers were missing after an avalanche on Peru's highest peak Huascaran, police said Tuesday. The three U.S. citizens were caught in an avalanche that took place Monday on the 22,205-foot Huascaran, police in the Andean city of Yungay said in a statement. A group of Czech climbers told police they saw an ice formation fall on the three mountain climbers, who were all making their way down from the summit tied to the same rope, at around 19,500 feet, the statement added. According to police, a mountain rescue unit had begun to make its way on foot toward the area of the accident, but searchers so far have been unable to locate the missing climbers. Further search efforts are planned. The Huascaran is the crowning glory of Peru's Cordillera Blanca, which is the highest tropical mountain range in the world in one of Peru's most-popular tourist regions."

Anyone ever rig their butane stoves with a heat-exchanger (copper wire wrapped around cannister with one end exposed to the flame)? I've heard both Mark Synott/Twight talk about using them, but the whole butane-cannister explosion thing has me a bit wary. I suppose if you reserve them for the times when it's well below freezing (done the hands thing before but when it's waaay cold it's a bummer) and the cannister/copper junction stays below a critical temperature it could be safe.

quote: Originally posted by Dennis Harmon: Reply to Jay B, There is nothing that I have to prove to you,lad. And there is no route descriptions, (beta) as you say, that I'm willing to provide you. Any information that you could get from me that you couldn't get from a guide book would be antithetical to you're [sic] adventure anyway. Good luck and God speed. Dennis Dennis: While I do ask for beta or opinions on technical matters from time to time, and am thankful for those that respond, that was not the intent of my post. I was just hoping that as a self-annointed "old-timer" that you had something to contribute to the site other than, or at least in addition to, pounding the "I despise sport climbers/the youth of America" drum at every opportunity. I still suspect that that's the case, but one would never know it from reading your posts. Regards,

I think that there was a thread on rec.climbing entitled "Braile Book Accident" or something like that with a few links to news stories about the accident. Sounds like the climber had some serious fractures but was otherwise in stable condition when he was hoisted off the ground, but the chopper apparently had some mechanical problems (?)shorty after lift-off which resulted in the fallen climber and a rescuer being dragged into a tree at high speeds. The climber died as a result of the injuries he sustained in his collision with the tree and his rescuer sustained multiple injuries.

quote: Originally posted by Dennis Harmon: I firmly believe that so-called "sport climbing" together with rampant bolting of my beloved rock is spelling the death of my beloved sport, and that it is being done, largely, by an entire generation of spoiled youth of this country who have only taken, and taken, and taken... and have never been required to give anything back...Dennis One more thing. Which generation are you referring to here? Must not be us folks in our 20s. You will recall that sport-climbing had its genesis in the early 80s, and that being the case, the generation responsible for the vast majority of the bolted routes and the ethics you deplore is your very own. Even today I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone under thirty putting up new-bolted lines. I suspect this is partly a cost issue, and also partly because most of the accessible lines on quality rock that can't be protected with gear have already been bolted and there's really no need.

Jesus - anyone remember a worse year for climbers/copters? [ 06-25-2002, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: JayB ]

quote: Originally posted by Dennis Harmon: Darn it, I guess that I'd better moderate my comments as well because I tend to upset people. I firmly believe that so-called "sport climbing" together with rampant bolting of my beloved rock is spelling the death of my beloved sport, and that it is being done, largely, by an entire generation of spoiled youth of this country who have only taken, and taken, and taken... and have never been required to give anything back. But, I have always thought that freedom of speech is still in effect, regardless how stupid and vulgar it may be. Dennis Dennis - you've made your point. Several times. Your opinion on this matter is abundantly clear, even to those who may have missed your 20-odd posts expressing this very same sentiment in a number of other forums. Surely as a hardcored trad-only old schooler you've got a lot of good beta and technical know how to share - why not post some of that every now and then instead of/in addition to the anti-bolting screeds? Just a thought.

Checked out the "Spray" section on R&I.com after checking the "Route Conditions" forum. Just in case you were wondering how he's doing... "WOW, what a suck ass ascene in washington. man i was kicked off 2 times of the cascadeclimbers.com. they should rename the site to cascadechuggers.cum. bunch of old fart trad suck ass i am standing on my soap box wannabes. if you ever go to the site- you'll find out that lunatic fringe in the ditch is a "relenless pitch", v2 is a hard boulder problem. that site makes R&I look like an olympic champ. and then some loser tim (site moderator) bothers me with a personal email....." etc, etc, etc.

Phinney sounds good if anyone's still keeping track....

quote: Originally posted by Matt: While leading the Standard Route on CP I was horrified to see someone's rope stuck far in the back of the crack. Not just a little piece, but maybe 30 feet!!!! That's why they now have rap stations out in the middle of the blank face so you don't have to rap the route. The last time I got my rope stuck I was able to lead up with the other free rope to the bush that the stuck rope was rapped around and then down climb with both ends. Down climbing is a skill gym climbers often ignore. I think that that section of rope is still there -unless it's melted in the Hayman fire - at least it was last summer. From what I remember it was about 30 feet of orangish rope waaaay back in the crack, just above the first belay ledge. Maybe from the Samurai nut tool crew. From what I hear it's been the site of many rappel related epics, all the more puzzling because of the rap-route down the clean granite on the face that you mentioned. Speaking of the face, did you see the bolted route on the face with the homemade hangers? Called "The Abortion" or something like that. Not sure if anyone's ever climbed it - made me nauseous just looking at it. Also, thanks for sharing the info about leading back up to the pro with the remainder of the rope! I hadn't thought of that but hopefully I would have been able to figure something like that out if I had to, but thankfully that's a scenario I haven't encountered yet. Seems like that would be the way to go unless the distance to the upper end of the stuck rope is greater than the amount of free rope that you have available to ascend the crack with (?). Maybe in a situation like that one could anchor the rope at the belay ledge, set pro on the way up, and self-belay with a backed up clove hitch or something...then downclimb(?). Pretty dodgy-stuff, but might be better than the alternative if you're waaaaaaay out there and no one else will be able to help you out. Anyone out there ever had to do anything like that?

I should have known that was coming...

FWIW, I've had the misfortune of ascending stuck ropes* (they were still running through the anchor, thankfully) after a rappell on two occaisons and having the ti-blocs around made the process much less of an ordeal. It was also quite a bit faster (3 or four times as fast) than using prusiks, which I appreciated since we were bailing because of the incoming lightning...I hesitated a bit to fork over the $40 for the pair in the store, but I would have paid several times that amount to get my hands on them in the midst of that storm. Bottom line: The ti-blocs are expensive, but easily worth the money, given the number of applications they have as ascenders, self rescue devices, back-ups for simul-climbing, etc. *Any official protocol to follow when this happens? In my case the rope was still threaded through the slings, so I could just ascend both ropes, pull the knot out of the constriction, rap back to the ledge, and head down - but what if you've pulled down so much rope that you've only got one end left? This happened to a couple of friends of mine on Hallets and their solution was to cut the rope that they had been able to pull down, rap of of this piece, and leave a fortune's worth of gear on the way down in a series of 5 50' rappels. Thankfully they had a knife. I heard a story of a couple of guys who had to endure a lightning storm on Cynical Pinnacle while they struggled to cut their rope with their nut tool...I'd be interested in hearing about any other means of getting oneself out of this situation...

Word.

quote: Originally posted by mwills:

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: Jay it took me one pitch until I was finding the swing. I love em on the steeps and especially topping out and on bulges. Very good hooking machines That's what I wanted to hear! My prophets were solid tools, but when it came to bulges, hook-fests, or topping out the straight shaft was a drag. I tried to commit myself to the improve yourself not your tools philosophy for a while, but after taking it for a test drive I've decided that I'll buy any edge that I can afford.

Grivel USA 1435, South State Street Evolution Ski Complex SLC - UTAH 84115 USA Phone: ++1.801.463.7996

quote: Originally posted by Jedi: Robocomps look nice and I have heard great things about their "stickyness" ice. But their long secondary points sound like they make mixed/rock climbing not as enjoyable as it could be. Any experiences with these crampons guys. Jedi Lots of experience with the Rambocomps last year, but none of it on the mixed stuff. I did see a whole crew of guys using them on Secret Probation (or Secret Prohbition or something like that)(M4 or 5 of something) at Vail and didn't hear any complaining. If nothing else, the Grivel's come with a pretty burly forged mono-point that should last for a while if you're into the mixed thing. On pure ice, they're the shiznit. The long secondardy points work their magic here, readily engaging the ice and forming a nice stable tripod right off the bat. The absurdly recessed secondary points on my Switchblades more or less ruled out dropping your heel to engage the secondary points, as you had to drop your heel so low that your front-points were about to blow by the time the secondaries touched the ice. Anyhow, the Grivel's also seemed to do awfully well in extremely convoluted or chandeliered ice as the displacement was minimal. I also like the fact that the top of the mono flares out at the top - made me quite a bit less concerned about shearing. And lastly, the set of prongs under the ball of your foot that faces rearward made it possible to cop flat-footed stances on downward-sloping bulges and other features with much less anxiety. Grivel had better send me a sticker or something for this testimonial.... Also - just got a pair of the Light Machines from Barrabes about a month ago as I was worried that they would stop shipping them to the US before the next season got underway. Ray or anyone else who uses them - any trouble adjusting your swing to the next angle? If so, how long until you got it dialed in? Thanks in advance for any info...

quote: Originally posted by JayB: quote:Originally posted by pope: [qb]I see little harm in gym climbing, or even sport climbing when it's confined to a chossy cliff. This, however, is progress. I was just kidding there, hombre. I'll have to remember to use a smiley-face next time. Best Regards, [ 06-19-2002, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: JayB ]

quote: Originally posted by pope: I see little harm in gym climbing, or even sport climbing when it's confined to a chossy cliff. This, however, is progress.

quote: Originally posted by pope: Dude, you've obviously learned reading comprehension from Lambone, or maybe you've been taking logic lessons from Peter Pounder. How else may one explain the way you seem to have pulled that assertion out of your arse? My comments on gym climbing have been mostly positive. In fact, I was a member of a climbing gym for years, and I enjoyed the fitness and (occasionally) the social exchanges. Checking out the exotic talent made the exorbitant membership fees worth the price. I see little harm in gym climbing, or even sport climbing when it's confined to a chossy cliff. To bad it never works out that way. Ugh. Yes, your comments concerning sport-climbing, sport-climbers, climbing gyms, and the people who frequent them have been overwhelmingly positive and I have grossly misrepresented the tenor of your commentary on this site by suggesting anything to the contrary. My apologies.

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