JayB

Amen, brother....

Dwayner: You've got your opinion, they've got theirs. If you can prove that yours is objectively true in any domain other than your own mind, then I'll nominate you to dicate what is and is not acceptable in terms of route development for all of mankind. Until such proof is forthcoming, you'll just have to live with the fact that your opinions on this matter are no more and no less valid than those belonging to the locals at Shelf in theoretical terms, and quite a bit less valid in practical terms since it is they, and not you, who call the shots out there. Best Regards,

I heard it's on the main face of the west peak. I've been wanting to check out the 1960 line on that aspect for a while. Hopefully I'll make it out there when the weather turns warm.

Made an insulator for the tube out of pipe insulation I bought at home depot for about $3.50. Took about five minutes to cut the foam so that the interior channel was the appropriate size and tape up. Works great.

Max: You still in CO? Ever make it back out to Lincoln? As far as bolting in CO goes, I hear what you are saying but generalizing the bolting ethos that prevails in Boulder Canyon and Shelf Road and generalizing it to cover all of the state seems like a bit of a stretch to me, as would claiming that the route development at Exit 38 and Vantage is characteristic of all climbing in Washington. I never climbed in Boulder Canyon, but put in a lot of days at Shelf and loved the place. Hundreds of routes to choose from, warm-sunny days even in the winter, quality rock, incredible scenery, and cool folks from all over the world to chat with. There were a few overbolted lines there, but there were also plenty of routes sporting first bolts high enough to do some damage, crater potential up to the third bolt, bad rock, jingus homemade hangers, etc if that's what you were looking for. There were also a number of bolted cracks there, but I can't remember there being much controversy concerning them, as from what I could tell the consensus was that things that would be unthinkable elsewhere were permissible at Shelf. I asked about one crack in particular (Dihedrus was the name, I think) with a passerby and he claimed that the bolters checked in with the FA's prior to bolting trad lines and that they had given the green light to go ahead. Assuming that was the case, if the FA's had no problem with it, neither did I. And neither should anyone reading this at their computer half-way across the country, either IMO, unless it was wildly inconsistent with the local ethics (it's not). While there are some ethical lines that virtually everyone agrees should not be crossed (chipping, bolting artificial holds onto the rock, wearing neon spandex, etc) I think that respecting local ethics is the only way to keep the peace and prevent senseless bolt wars from errupting. If the locals that have developed the climbing at Shelf want to bolt cracks, I say leave them be. If the way they have developed the crags is inconsistent with your personal vision for what's acceptable in terms of route development, don't climb there. There's plenty of other places to go in CO where bolting cracks would be unthinkable, and a much different ethic prevails, such as: Eldorado Canyon Rocky Mountain National Park Lumpy Ridge, The South Platte (More of a geographic area than a crag, dozens and dozens and dozens of distinct crags to be found here) Eleven Mile Canyon Pikes Peak Crags, Old Stage Road Garden of the Gods Colorado National Monument Vedauwoo (Not actually in CO but its very close and shares the same ethic) Lost Creek Wilderness Area Meuller State Park So yeah, there's a few bolted cracks in the limestone at Shelf, but I have a hard time believing that those who want old-school pant-loading trad experiences will ever run out of routes to choose from in CO.

Fence: That's pretty funny - I was wondering who would end up with that gear - and thought that someone from cc.com might walk away with it. When did you pry it out of the crack? I thought I heard people make reference to the stuck gear on that section of the climb for at least a month or two after my partner left it behind there. I've long since replaced the gear, but it would be pretty amusing to chronicle that stopper's travels around the world since being left behind last summer...

Snow Conditions at Paradise (up to about 7500 feet) - Heavy Snow coming down, intermittent but mild winds. - 8-18" of new most places. Mostly mildly windpacked powder (shattered crytals) with evidence of moderately high winds from the Northeast above abo)ut 7000 feet. -Soft slab formation (about a foot on leeward aspects), sliding relatively easily atop the frozen raincrust. Avy hazard might have been considerable on these aspects but things seemed pretty stable elsewhere. -Cooling temps. Met a couple of guys headed up to Muir in pretty heavy conditions for an attempt on the Nisqually Icefall route. Hope that climb goes well fellas...

I'm actually on your side on this one, j-b, but it seems to me that you are confusing physical and moral equivalence here. Putting a sadistic murderer who has been proven guiltly beyond any doubt whatsoever to death, is not the same thing as that said murderer slaughtering his victims, nor is this the same thing as someone mistakenly knocking a rock off a ledge that kills someone below. All are physically equivalent to one another in that in each instance one person has taken another's life, but they are clearly not morally equivalent to one another. Police speed to stop speeding cars, use force to prevent someone from violating another person with force, use guns to kill snipers, etc, etc, etc - all acts that resemble one another physically but are completely different morally. Having said that, I'll add that I am an opponent of the death penalty, but have no moral objection to putting a murderer to death if there is no doubt whatsoever about his guilt. The problem is that there are very few cases in which the evidence establishing the defendant's guilt meets this standard, and DNA evidence has brought to light a number of cases in which innocent men were on the verge of being put to death for crimes that they did not commit, and I'd rather this society keep all the guilty men alive before putting a single innocent man to death. There's also the fact that it's cheaper just to let killers rot in a cell for the rest of their life than it is to put them to death. So while I can't support capital punishment in practice, I think that those who oppose it on the grounds that putting a murderer to death puts society on the same plane as the killer are using a transparent falacy in the place of arguments that would ultimately do more to advance their cause, and would thus well served by putting this one to rest.

No one's going to decide not to try to rescue their partner because they think that they're buried too deep - "Well, shit - the beacon shows that he's at least 12 feet under, let's hit the bar..."- but the rescue stats show that the likelihood that you'll succeed in your efforts to locate and dig out a victim in time if they're buried more than six feet deep in a true companion rescue scenario (one, maybe two people involved in the rescue as opposed to however many people were involved in the Revelstoke recovery) are still pretty slim. Anyway - I agree that a full size probe is better, but any probe is better than no probe - which is the problem that the folks at BCA are trying to solve by incorporating the probe/shovel into a single unit.

I hear you Ryland! I just started using the mountaineering boot+AT setup combo this winter and expected it to be a challenge. It was indeed that, and while I had no delusions about styling turns with that set-up and a pack on, I found that simply staying upright with no support and the weight on my back was a challenge with this set-up. I think that the most difficult thing to get used to was the lack of any real support from behind as I'm used to downhill setups where you've got so much support that you can lift your tips off of the ground if you lean back hard enough. Downhill boots also keep your legs inclined forward below the knee, something which you tend to take for granted when they're locked in that position. I found that if I consciously inclined my shins forward in particular and my weight forward in general, I had much better - albeit limited - control. I doubt I'll ever go looking for turns with this set-up, but still think it's the answer for long, snowy approaches with a moderate grade.

Sweet photos, very impressive climb.

I'm not trying to bait anyone here - just trying to determine the principle reasons why people are opposed to attacking Iraq. Some of you are obviously adamantly against the use of force against Iraq, so perhaps you wouldn't mind sharing the arguments which underpin your opinions. Here are a few questions I that might help me better understand where you are coming from. Share your answers to one or two (or all) if you feel like it. 1. How would you like to see the US deal with Iraq? End the embargo and forgo any attempts to prevent the present Iraqi regime from obtaining WMD and menacing their neighbors with them? 2. Do you think it would be possible to contain aggressive behavior by the present Iraqi regime, or enter serious negotiations with them if neither initiative were backed by a credible threat of force? 3. Are you opposed to the use of force because doing so would involve the US acting unilaterally rather than in concert with our allies on the UN Security Council? Were you also opposed to using force to stop the arrest the slaughter in Yugoslavia for this reason? Are UN Security council members like China and Russia in a good position to confer moral legitimacy on the use of arms? 4. Do you believe that the average Iraqi will be better off under Sadam or one of his protege's than under a regime established by the US? 5. Do you believe that Saddam Hussein has not spent the better part of the past two decades attempting to aquire every WMD that he could get his hands on? Do you think that this his posession of these weapons would present any problems for the region or the world? Are you in favor of waiting until his regime aquires these weapons and the means to deliver them before acting? Will we be in a better position to deal with them then? 6. Are there any situations in which you would support the use of force against another nation? Thanks,

Cloudveil Ice Floe Jacket for $185 (vs $265) on the website right now... I think that you can actually get some pretty decent house-brand stuff from REI for the price. The new house-brand schoeller stuff "Mistral" is pretty legit and costs about 1/3 to 1/2 of the price of other soft shell stuff. Plus all of you hard corps types know that you want the dog-bone carabiners, titanium mochachino makers, and gore-tex bunny slippers. Just confess - you'll feel much better...

I think the folks at BCA had the limited use scenario in mind for the companion probe. Their thinking was that folks would be more likely to carry a light, 6' model that fits in a handle than the burlier models. I think they also took a look at the rescue stats and found that pretty much anyone buried more than 6 feet deep is a goner in a companion rescue scenario.... I have a voile shovel and one of the burly probes myself, but if I had to do it over again I'd get the BCA combo.

If I were buying a shovel I'd pick up one of the models that BCA manufactures. I'd get the Companion or Tour models for use around here, maybe the Chugach model for heavy use. Reasons: -Includes probe that you can stash in the handle. -Oval shaped tube for more strength. -Higher grade aluminum in the blade than found in most shovels for a better stregth-to-weight ratio. -Burlier shaft-shovel interface that's less likely to break.

Howdy Greg: I'd guess that the temps ran into the low 20's overnight and into the mid-to-high-30's during the day. It was very sunny up there until at least noon today so the south and east facing aspects probably got quite a bit of sun.

Didn't climb anything, but was up there dinking around on the skis and checking things out today. Ice: There's a climbable flow on the south side of the valley leading up to source lake, about 3/4 of a mile in. Looked like about 50 feet of WI 3-4 with a tree at the top to finish at if you're not into thrutching through unconsolidated snow to finish off your ice leads. There were also a couple of thin, burly (scary/dangerous) looking flows "in" on the slopes due west of Source Lake, starting at about 300 feet (rough estimate) above the lake. There were a couple of folks starting up the northernmost flow (on the climbers right). Kind of hard to rate something from so far away, but I'd guestimate three or four pitches in the WI4-5 range with M grades at about the same level or just a bit lower. Just a guess. There was also another thin looking flow about 200' to the south (climbers left) that looked like it might go at about WI4 for 2-3 pitches. Keep in mind that these are just guesses, and everything on that aspect looked thin and gnarly. Snow: Thin crust/hoarfrost on top of about 8-12" of looser snow, which was itself on top of a firm layer about 12-18" deep. Should stay very stable until it gets hit by warmth and/or snow.

I remember hearing something about the gate to the access road being locked this time of year. Any truth to that or is the road open year round these days?

"There are also a couple of steep chutes off of the Zipper, on the right, after you exit into the Zipper from Lover's Lane. I've done them both and they take you up toward the summit ridge. Also, there's another interesting route that goes straight up the north face beginning in that little chute you can see in between the two v-shaped couloirs (zipper on the left, "the fly" on the right.) The crux involves about 5.7 moves over a rotten rock band." Thanks for the info Dwayner - I plan to head back to Lane Peak this season and it's nice to know about some of the other options up there. As far as the two chutes that branch off of El Zipper are concerned, does the lower of the two chutes begin directly across from the top of Lover's Lane or higher up? I saw one or two very narrow slots directly across from where we topped out but they looked mighty heinous when we were out there. If I was looking at the right slots (or one of them) it looks like someone like myself would need a healthy coating of ice in those suckers before venturing forth. Also, how does the slot between The Zipper and The Fly compare to Lover's Lane in terms of pitch, technical difficulty, etc? Thanks again/in advance for any additional info.

"Yes, so I have discovered!" Mike: Did you get out there recently?

Thought I'd post the conditions we encountered in the Tatoosh Range last weekend just in case anyone is interested. We climbed "Lover's Leap" on Lane Peak, which is the narrow, couloir trending left to right on the far left side of the photo below (photo originally by philfort, linked from www.cascadeclimber.com) You approach the couloir by ascending a moderately angled (25-35 degrees, tops) snow-chute for roughly 400 feet, then enter the couloir by means of a short step that's quite a bit steeper but still pretty mellow (high 50's-low 60's maybe). From here the couloir widens to 30-40 feet or so, and the angle eases back to the mid-40 degree range for about 300 feet. There's another brief steep step at the top of this section, after which point the couloir gets progressively narrower and just a bit steeper. From here you're looking at maybe 300-400 feet to the top of the couloir. Once you arrive at the top there's a tree to your left with a few slings attached that should enable you to rap into "The Zipper" if you've got two 60 meter ropes, or you can traverse into The Zipper by continuing to traverse to your climbers left. It was getting dark and snowing mighty hard at this point so we just rapped from here. Other Info. -Anyone comfortable leading ice to WI3 would probably be comfortable soloing this couloir with one tool under just about any conditions (barring perhaps bullet ice). We had a party of three with a fairly wide range of experience on this trip so we elected to rope up and climbed the route using a running belay. A set-of nuts, 2-3 pickets, and a couple of screws should be adequate for just about any conditions you'd find in the route in. Snowpack: In the couloir: 1 foot to six inches of firm snow atop loose, granlular snow (in places) with ice below. Thin ice on the periphery of the couloir and on the sides of the steep steps mentioned above. Lots of small spin-drift slides off of the rock slabs to the climbers right of the route during our descent. About 1-1.5 meters of snow on the ground. As of Saturday this consisted of 1-2" of hoarfrost atop a dense, icy layer 1.5-2' feet thick, which itself rested atop some fairly unconsolidated, granular snow. On the approach we came across a couple of gullies that broke to the ground. From what we could see it looked like the debris were about a week old, and probably let loose at the beginning of last week's warm spell. When we were hiking out Saturday evening it was raining very heavily at about the midpoint of Lover's Leap and below, and the snow was getting mighty heavy. Might be a bit of a worry if it's resting on nothing more than the granular stuff. Nice day in the mountains....

"On a broader note you might consider how may "liberal" columnists are employed by the Wall Street Journal for the editorial page - that's easy - none." The WSJ differs from the NYT in that it has never pretended to be impartial in its editorial coverage, and they restate the philosophy that underpins their editorials in print every so often. See Below... "Looking back over this history, the surprise is not the change of views over the years but the constancy of them. (See "Journal Editorials and the Common Man.") They are united by the mantra "free markets and free people," the principles, if you will, marked in the watershed year of 1776 by Thomas Jefferson's Declaration of Independence and Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations." So over the past century and into the next, the Journal stands for free trade and sound money. Against the interference of taxes and ukases by kings and other collectivists. For the defense of individual autonomy against dictators, bullies and even the tempers of momentary majorities. If these principles sound unexceptionable in theory, applying them to current issues is often unfashionable and controversial."

I'll up the improbability ante - two biners (locker and oval) marked with yellow tape attached to blue webbing on the last set of anchors before the top of Dreamer on Green Giant Buttress. Left in late September. My climbing partner also left a couple of mid-sized BD stoppers fixed in the finger crack at the start of the last pitch on outer-space in July. Marked with red tape... While you are at it, maybe you could return the 22cm Grivel 360 screw that I lost at the base of Mt. Lincoln falls out in CO last November. Also marked with yellow tape...

"I think JayB must really be a mole from Summitpost..." SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

From Summitpost.com: "Those of us privileged to reside in the Pacific NW live in the most diverse, historic and best climbing area in the USA. Summit Post.com is the best worldwide Mountain/rock climbing sites in the world -bar none. People from around the world are tuning in to this site (check out the diversity of listings). The site is world class. Why then does a temporary, goof ball, spray spewing site like XXX Climber.com get so much more local news traffic than a world class site like Summit Post.com-Pacific NW (WA.OR)?? As well, The Mountaineers.com web site is excellent, but only for listings of future trips/outings. The format of SummitPost.com sets the stage for a better experience in terms of learning about world ranges, route descriptions, viewing great pictures, news, better moderators and so on: Bottom line it’s the best site out there. How can we make “Our” site, the site of a serious worldwide climbing community, better for late breaking climbing news? If you have any suggestions on how to better affiliate this forum (local N.W. news) to local climbers, please let the web master in on your idea. This is the best sight going given the level of maturity/professionalism here vs., the passing goofiness elsewhere.Those of us privileged to reside in the Pacific NW live in the most diverse, historic and best climbing area in the USA. Summit Post.com is the best worldwide Mountain/rock climbing sites in the world -bar none. People from around the world are tuning in to this site (check out the diversity of listings). The site is world class. Why then does a temporary, goof ball, spray spewing site like XXX Climber.com get so much more local news traffic than a world class site like Summit Post.com-Pacific NW (WA.OR)?? As well, The Mountaineers.com web site is excellent, but only for listings of future trips/outings. The format of SummitPost.com sets the stage for a better experience in terms of learning about world ranges, route descriptions, viewing great pictures, news, better moderators and so on: Bottom line it’s the best site out there. How can we make “Our” site, the site of a serious worldwide climbing community, better for late breaking climbing news? If you have any suggestions on how to better affiliate this forum (local N.W. news) to local climbers, please let the web master in on your idea. This is the best sight going given the level of maturity/professionalism here vs., the passing goofiness elsewhere."