JayB

I think I'm trotting this stuff out for like the fourth time, but...If all we wanted out of Iraq was the oil and we were not the least bit worried about what Saddam and Co would use the money for, we would have never even attempted to put sanctions on his regime, and would have simply bought all of the oil the guy could pump, and shipped him all of the hardware he needed to do so. The increasing volume coming to market would serve our interest by keeping a lid on prices, not to mention saving us the 100 billion plus it would take to invade and occupy the country. Moreover, why did we not simply occupy and or seize the Iraqi oilfields under the guise of liberating them back in 1991, if oil is in fact the only strategic consideration which precipitated this attack on Iraq? Do you really think that its likely that the US's perception of its strategic interests has changed that drastically in a dozen years? So by this logic if there had been only one nation left that was capable of defeating the Nazis and liberating Europe you would have opposed this on principle? Are you seriously saying that everything was A-Okay in Iraq until about three weeks ago? If we hadn't invaded, Saddam's regime would have miraculously ceased to murder anyone that dared oppose the regime? Not trying to pick a fight, just trying to figure out where you are coming from.

What Dru said. It's all about energy balance, amigo. Keep the energy expenditure up or the consumption down. If you are really interested in reading more about this stuff plug in the words "Weight Loss Altitude" Here (PUBMED) and you'll find 56 articles that have something to do with this stuff. Some Examples: Partitioned weight loss and body composition changes during a mountaineering expedition: a field study. Wilderness Environ Med. 1998 Fall;9(3):143-52. Weight loss at high altitude. Adv Exp Med Biol. 2001;502:237-47. Review. PMID: 11950142 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Energy and water balance at high altitude. News Physiol Sci. 2001 Jun;16:134-7. Review. PMID: 11443234 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE Influence of hypobaric hypoxia on leptin levels in men. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2000 Jun;24 Suppl 2:S151. No abstract available. PMID: 10997640 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Decrease of subcutaneous adipose tissue lipolysis after exposure to hypoxia during a simulated ascent of Mt Everest. Pflugers Arch. 1999 Dec;439(1-2):134-40. PMID: 10651010 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE The effects of high altitude trekking on body composition and resting metabolic rate. Horm Metab Res. 1997 Sep;29(9):458-61. PMID: 9370116 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Water turnover and body composition during long-term exposure to high altitude (4,900-7,600 m). J Appl Physiol. 1996 Apr;80(4):1118-25. PMID: 8926235 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Effect of altitude on body composition during mountaineering expeditions: interrelationships with changes in dietary habits. Ann Nutr Metab. 1996;40(6):315-24. PMID: 9087309 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Effect of acute exposure to reduced atmospheric pressures on body weight, food intake and body composition of growing rats. Acta Physiol Pharmacol Latinoam. 1985;35(3):311-8. PMID: 2938414 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE Read them all and summarize the result for us....

Give www.guardian.co.uk a try. Swerves about as far to the Left as the Wall Street Journal does to the Right in it's editorials, but this paper, like the WSJ has quite a few reporters on the ground all over the world and seems to break news related to Iraq very quickly.

I am definitely down with Zeke's. Best location yet...for me.

I don't think we'd attract too much unwanted attention from the cops as long as we keep the bevy's contained in nalgenes, packs, etc. and don't get too loud later in the evening. Worst comes to worst we can make up a fake UW club with a convincing name.

How about bouldering with beverages at UW when it starts staying light until 9:30-10:00?

I agree with PP. Her death was a tragedy in many ways, but no more so than when another American woman was blown to pieces by a Palestenian suicide bomber while riding a bus just the week before. Anyone recall any candle-light vigils for her?

I saw that car at the entrance to Mountaineer Creek Road about a month ago. Gotta love any sedan that you can crash in at a trailhead. Your car is cool. I also think that oversized SUV's are oversized posermobiles that flat out suck when you actually try to take them on tough roads: tough to maneuver, get high centered all the ^%#ing time due to the long distance between axles, their rear ends get hung up on obstacles after they pass over them, and heavy as all hell if they get stuck - try getting a 'Burban to budge with a come-a-long - and don't even get me started on the pimped out navigators with low profile tires, etc. But - I still think the claim about SUV's singlehandedly bringing about an environmental cataclysm are an utter crock. Any passenger vehicle with a 3.0 V6 or higher, let alone a V8 (quite a few minivans packing an 8 these days, and these are also classified as light trucks for emissions purposes) changes the climate just as much as the average SUV. How about a crusade agains mini-vans? I'd support that.

Zeke's...

Off-White is in fact reasonable, as is his interpretation of Ray's post. If you limit yourself to what the text actually says, rather than attributing hidden meanings to it, it is clear that Ray is saying "You are a slut," not "I am actively threatenting to rape you." Yeah - it's offensive - but it was clearly intended as an insult, not a threat, and the response it got seems quite overblown to me.

If you went left right after reaching the last set of anchors prior to the crux pitch of Online, that would have put you right in the vicinity of American Pie if you traversed far enough to that side. There is a short right facing dihedral on the far right of Tombstone ledge where the ledge and the slab intersect - that's the only one I can remember in the area - but you'd have to traverse a ways to get that far over. If you did head over that far and climbed the route above and slightly to the left of the dihedral that would have put you on Black Fly, and the anchors at the top of this route are now stainless 1/2" deals. As far as I know the triple-jingus anchor on top of Offline/The Right Line is still in place, and would be as good a candidate as any for replacement out there. You could access these anchors without climbing any 5.10 slabs by heading up Black Fly and continuing on the easy 5th stuff to the anchors on the top of Online (also new), then rapping down to the triple-jingus set-up on Offline/Right Line and continuing down from there. When are you planning to head out there?

Sounds like a good idea to me. Cheap exposure for local shops, a way to make the site more self-supporting, and a way to take a bit of the burden off of the founders.

Muscle cars don't represent over 50% of the vehicles on the road, that's why. They also don't contribute to so many traffic fatalities either. Quite simple. Is this about endangering other drivers or excessive CO2 emissions? If it's about safety, then that's quite a different campaign, and in that case you'd be better served by focusing your ire on drunk drivers, people talking on their cell phones when driving, speeding, etc. The folks behind the "I'm Changing the Climate!" campaign seem to be objecting to folks driving vehicles that emit quite a bit more CO2 than the their owners typical transportation needs can justify. In that case there's no logical reason why they should exclude sports cars. Or heavy-ass Volvo X-Countries, luxury sedans, etc. This is an ideological crusade masquerading as concern for the environment.

Number one, fuck that; this is about as minor as "vandalism" gets. Two minutes with a razor blade, and the sticker is off (although if people really wanna do a non-offensive job, the window IS the best place for it). Plus, it's a fun and subversive way to spread a message and make a point, and anyone that isn't into a little bit of fun subversion is, to employ the right-wing idiom, "a pussy." Number two, what makes you think people who would do something like this don't already do things like vote for pro-gas-mileage restriction politicians, etc.? Just because people are interested in pursuing minorly illegal avenues to further their agenda doesn't mean they haven't explored the legal options as well. I'm not telling anyone not to plaster someone's cars with these stickers - just saying that you should be man enough to do it right in front of the owners. A V10 Viper changes the climate every bit as fast as a Yukon or Suburban, and having a car with a top speed at least 100 mph is excess of the legal speed limit is at least as wasteful as cruising around in an SUV that you never take off the road. Why no crusade against muscle cars? And, as others have pointed out, its really mpg x miles driven that determines how much CO2 introduce into the atmosphere, and accordingly how much you "Change the Climate." as a result of your personal choices. One could make the same arguments for defacing someone's house because it is far larger than what some subgroup of society deems appropriate for X number of people, and consequently uses far more energy to heat and light than a more modest home would. If you live in any part of the first world, you are changing the climate too. Get over it, muchachos.

Agreed.

You'd be hard pressed to find a car that's as big of a danger to other drivers as a suxpidition, slugburban, nadgrator, etc. Yeah - size matters in this respect, but the main thing that makes a vehicle dangerous is the person behind the wheel, not the size. Beyond a certain point, additional regs are in order, though. Like if you drive a semi for instance.

No integrated shorts/poly/gaiter units show up on google yet. I sense an opportunity here...

I think that anyone that believes in this cause enough to deface someone else's property to promote it should be man enough to plaster these stickers on the rigs right in front of the owners. I'm in favor of energy conservation for a number of reasons, and practice what I preach by riding my bike to work at least 4-days a week, etc, etc - but I still think that skulking around an plastering these things one someone else's car because you don't approve of their choice of vehicles is about as dickless as it gets. How do you know whether they need or not, or in what capacity they use it? Moreover, what gives you the right to tell them what is and is not an acceptable vehicle for them? Vote for politicians that are in favor of imposing higher fuel efficiency requirements if that's what you want, but if the government says a car is legal you've got no business defacing it IMO. Besides - there are quite a few mini-vans, a number of sedans (Cady's et al) and a whole slew of sports cars that get mileage that's every bit as poor as many of the SUV's out there....

I'm waiting for someone to sell the shorts n' poly combo sewn together as a single unit, maybe even with poly-legs that zip-off and integrated gaiter units as an aftermarket option...

Careful - it may be contagious. At least one woman that I used to climb with ditched her passenger car for a new Tacoma after seeing what they are capable of. Even sprang for the TRD package. Now she talks about tires and clearance and stuff....

A pre 2003 4-runner sounds like the best bet considering your requirements. Compact, decent mileage, best 4x4 capabilites and clearance of any stock SUV. If they make 4 Runners in the those model years with the TRD package (with the locking differential in the rear), that'd be especially sweet if you are planning on doing some real 4x4ing with it. I would have bought a 4Runner after looking at the cost, chose a Toyota pickup instead. Same four wheel-drive capabilities, much lower price. I've been very pleased with its abilities in this arena, and have made it through a number of obstacles that shut down Exploders, Expeditions, and the like. What was Toyota thinking with the new 4-Runner? Seems like superior four-wheel drive capability and clearance were strong selling points for the older models. Hopefully they won't neuter the Tacoma in a similar fashion anytime soon.

I don't think that you'd find anyone who'd object to replacing jingus 1/4" bolts with modern hardware at Static Point or anywhere else! In fact, various folks that post on this board replaced the old bolts on Cashman, Black Fly, American Pie, and the anchors on top of the last pitch of Online last summer. If you are looking for suggestions for routes that could use new hardware out there, I'm sure there'll be plenty of suggestions though. One suggestion might be to use camouflaged hardware if you can get your hands on some.

Well, I read through the old thread that U.T. posted and thought that there were some good arguments for keeping the SCW the way it is posted over there. TimL made an especially good point about such routes serving as a good primer for longer, more remote routes where there is no easy retreat. In any event, the reason that I thought that a rap route would be worth considering was not because it would make the route easier/safer/less commiting, etc - but because it would make things easier on the landscape. As far as the landscape is concerned, the erosion on the descent route is not as bad as I've seen elsewhere - but there was quite a bit more damage than you'd have if there was single trail down the thing rather than everyone taking whatever route they please back down to the base. IMO a few discrete signs that keep the foot traffic concentrated on a single route down would be an easy way to reduce climber impact in to the area. It's not like anyone's going to get lost or benighted on the descent, so I can't really see how such additions would take any of the "adventure" out of the trip back down to the base. But if people think that maintaining whatever meager adventure/challenge is involved in the making the descent is more important than mitigating our impact on the place, so be it.

Where would you end up after rapping off of the last set of anchors that's currently in place? Would extending the line beneath the lowermost anchors put you on the ledge at the end of the second pitch of Remorse or thereabouts? I suspect that even though a rap line would reduce the clusterage on the route and considerably diminish climber impact, it'd probably be fairly controversial and invite megasprayage. Kudos to you for taking the intitiative to bring up the issue - seems worth discussing, at the very least.

Seems like a long overdue development to me if there is such a route in place, as it would certainly make things easier on the foliage and diminish the erosion onthe descent route, not to mention making the trip down a whole lot more pleasant.