DCramer

This wil probably confuse you more than if I said nothing. The route Lambone refers to is the right variation start to NAO. The right variation and the Narrow Arrow Direct share the same start. Look for a pair of left and right facing corners that form a stem and end at a small ledge. There should be a new bolt in this section. From the ledge, the right variation moves up and a bit left to a thin crack which leads to the right side of a small roof. The crux as I remember is moving under this roof. The Direct continues straight up a left facing corner and ultimately the top of the NA itself. (Look for a couple of bolts, this pitch is now free) The left variation start to NAO starts up a left facing corner and then climbs directly up to the left side of the small roof mentioned in the right start description. (There are numerous bolts on this pitch) This pitch is 11b/c and if dry is a super fun free climb but as an aid lead is not half as fun as the right start. The first pitch ends at a small ledge about 15’ below the “overhang.” The second pitch ends shortly above the overhang. The anchor may be bad. The roof is 12b or C2. I am about 90% sure the 15’ below the overhang has been freed as well.

Lambone’s recommendation of the Narrow Arrow Overhang is just about the perfect reply. All the routes to from NAO to Thin Fingers can be fairly fry, but the NAO is dry for the belayer, if he/she is right against the wall. Don’t forget the Zipper roof; however, the free climbing to it may be wet. Clay (a free route) would probably be mostly dry as well. Arch Enemy on Rattletale would also be dry. High winds could change everything.

Speaking of clean climbing, has anyone climbed the new variation on Town Crier? It climbs a direct line from near the top of the chimney pitch to the top of the next pitch. C2? Someone really ought to try the second pitch of Green Drag-On free. The distance between unabashed hanging and really freeing something is pretty close infinite but I think the pitch might go free. When I signed back on I reread the initial post and it appears that they were climbing the first pitch and placed a couple pins near the top. In good conditions the climbing there is pretty trivial, but in icy conditions it would be scary. I am not sure that clean pro would be very easily had in this section in any condition; in summer you would just run it out without comment. The consequences of any piton scarring in this section is close to nonexistent. (In terms of effecting future climbing) I am by no means advocating nailing clean climbs, just throwing my two cents into the mix. Darryl

Checking this thread and I feel the urge to clarify a few things Bronco said. Green Drag-On Rating C2/3 I write that the second pitch might be the only one to need a piton or two. Last time I was on this pitch I was trying to free it(done w/ hangs) and a pin was mighty nice. I left one. Town Crier Rating C2/3 I say that most want to bring a couple of pins just in case. "Just in case" means in case someone has removed all the fixed pro. I stated that the routes were considered clean climbs and suggested (in the introduction) that if a person feels that a hammered piece is needed, perhaps due to removed fixed pro, then they should leave any pins fixed. This idea of a "hammerless second" seems like a good compromise in the whole debate. Perhaps subject to potential abuse but maybe not. Darryl

I sent Jon a PM asking if he could imagine a more appropriate and easily set up structure for an online UW Rock guide. I agree that those UW Rock pictures are annoying when they pop up. Check out the original thread someone just posted another route using one of those annoying pics!

I think that B&W looks better but it could always be the unsharp filter. Nice route, not sure if I know it. Darryl

The climbing at the Bat Caves is extremely fingery and the rock is brittle. I'd say it is worth at least a trip or two. Most of the routes are pretty hard.(5.12) One route on the left side looks pretty amazing but is marred by a dirty first pitch. I can attest the hike is not so bad as I did it with two left shoes on! The obvious crack pitch that has been mentioned look wild. Anyone have any experiences they want to share with us about it?

I added some more pics of the UW Rock. I think an online guide would be a fun thing to have. The original files are huge but I tried to reduce their size - maybe not the best way. Would B&W be better than color? Pope, you're the first one I have heard suggest Smoot's UW Rock guide was prepared without much thought and energy. For years Smoot was a regular at the rock - literally obsessed with the place. I thought his book was pretty good and original and that the routes were clearly shown. The ratings are a bit odd but they are still pretty good at showing relative difficulty. I would agree that the Hopkins/Wolfe guide is pretty groovy too! If anyone is having problems sussing out new problems both books would show some new gems staring them in the face.

Way back in the early(?) 80's Smoot wrote a really good guide to the UW rock. It is no longer in print. He does sell an abridged version on his website. I know several guides have been available in more recent years but since Smoot is still around and likes publishing things, I imagine several emails would encourage him to reprint his version. One of the UW rock's charms is discovering the problems for yourself but I thought I'd throw the Smoot book into the mix. The possibilty of a CC.com based guide seems like a fun project as well.

I agree with Erik about the quarry being history but there have been several attempts to snag some rock from the talus field in the past 20 years. Perhaps the best thing climbers can do to ensure access is to be civil and not to drive up the access road (crossing the RR tracks) to the quarry. My experiences with the Parks Dept. lead me to believe that they are good guys and are supportive of climbing at Index. Darryl

About 8 years ago I spent several hours with a Snohomish county cartographer in trying to figure out ownership issues. The cartographer was excited because I didn't want to talk about some boring subdivision issue. Ownership for some parcels goes back to mining claims. Without a formal survey to determine the exact location of each crag only general guesses can be made regarding property boundaries. I am not aware of any transactions that have changed the situation.

The last I heard: Four main ownership groups 1 Individuals 2 Rail company 3 USFS 4 State Parks Lower Lump Mostly individuals maybe a bit of Rail ownership Lower Wall Individuals until the tunnel then State Parks Upper Wall Extreme left portion individuals All the rest State Parks Lookout Point State Parks Gun Club USFS Parking lot Rail Company

Yos, Go check out the route it is really amazing that he climbed that thing without using a hammer.

Jamie gets it! I know this site is more alpine oriented than rock but I am amazed that Jamie's feat generated so little in the way of comments. Climbing Artifice clean is hands down the most fully committed Cascade climbing I have read about on this board. I was so blown away that last night I dreamt that I was checking out the cam placements unroped high up on the route and then because they were so wild I had to scamper over to the bomber jams on City Park so I wouldn't fall off! (Hey it's a dream) For those who don't know Artifice starts up the Bat Skins "arch" just left of City Park. It soon breaks away from the arch a climbs straight up a crack/seam to an old two-bolt station and then follows an even thinner crack past a bolt and some fixed heads to a point where it ends. From there a swing is made to Bat Skins which is followed to a belay at a small ledge. The route continues on with easier climbing. Unless they have been replaced, the bolts would be hard pressed to hold a long fall. I'd bet my next paycheck that a fall from the tension traverse with only cam hooks and the odd fixed piece for protection would be a grounder. Did he even bring a hammer? Amazing! I am going to have to pack a beer every time I go to Index just in case I run into him!

I believe most the umbrella regulations governing rock climbing were developed in the 1990's. Early in the decade the State Parks Dept. held a series of meetings with climbers (and other interested user groups)at several locations around the state. The umbrella regulations were developed out of these interactions. Several meetings directly concerning climbing at the Town Walls have been held with the Parks Dept. staff responsible for their managment. They have all been very congenial. My impression is that events like the annual clean-up have continued to maintain this relationship. The Index Town Walls with the exception of most of the Lower Wall and possibly the Lower Lump is essentially an undeveloped state park. The Parks Dept. is interested in acquiring the remaining privately owned parcels as part of the Skykomish Scenic River Rec. Corridor. Development of the area is contingent upon the Parks Dept. acquiring land that could be used to safely access the crags. That is to say the RR crossing isn't up to their code right now. I spoke with the staff that manage the Town Walls and specifically asked if the Walls would be closed to climbing due to budget reductions. I was told that that given the undeveloped nature of the area a closure didn't seem very likely at all.

Well the location is approximately the same; however, the block I mean was about 4' tall and met its demise last year sometime. I guess this illustrates just how many loose blocks exist! Darryl [ 11-21-2002, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: DCramer ]

quote: Originally posted by Mr. Natural: [QB]btw, I have heard that the "best line" whatever that means, is to start on green drag on and traverse over to TC for the x3 roofs pitch. has anyone done this? [QB] I am sure you can get from the GD to the TC but only have experience with the reverse direction. If you do it, let me know how it goes. A new variation exists on the TC route. Variation: On the chimney pitch of TC (2nd pitch) stop at the top of 12 Angry Bees. From there climb more or less straight up past a corner and then up a vertical crack to rejoin the route near the top of the regular third pitch. I am told this pitch is C2 and that it is a better way to go. The loose block indicated in the topo in Sky Valley Rock is now at the base of the route. Also, the bolted anchor below Smokeout Ledge #1 shown in the same topo doesn't exist. Stupid guidebook writers! If you do the variation, post a reply here or send me a PM giving more details. The second pitch of GD may be a bit damp. Darryl [ 11-21-2002, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: DCramer ]

Keep up the good work Andy! The Access Fund is an important group to keep active. I remember working on the Castle Rock trail project. On the day I worked I was the only climber! The other volunteers were hikers who thought it would be a fun project. I just wanted to add that one benefit of the Access Fund that is intangible but perhaps one of the most valuable is the quick and easy contact point with land managers that the Access Fund provides. Our active participation however small or large in events, projects and fundraisers strengthens this contact point. If the list of past accomplishments doesn't inspire participation, think of the future problems that will be either avoided or minimized by the existence of an Access Fund with a strong and cordial relationship with land managers. In all of my contacts with either Forest Service of State Parks Dept. staff they have mentioned both Andy and the Access Fund as a legitimate and effective resource for climbers. That they do so attests to the high quality work it has been doing. Darryl

The plan is to meet at the trailhead at 9:00am. We’ll have an extra pair of clippers so don’t be shy.

I must have made a mistake writing your # down. Please give me a ring.

Matt - Sounds like guidebook writer is an idiot! I haven't actually done that variation but other feedback suggests that it is a bit harder than .10a. Maybe 10c?

Mr. W - Your posting privileges are hereby revoked until further notice! I actually had a so-called "partner" cancel on me this am for a Sunday trip to those very crags you mentioned. One word of warning tho - don't go in hot weather!!!!! If I can figure out how to get my SCSI card working I'll scan some pics.

Cavey - Who Put the Purr Happy Puppy Them Lamar's Trust G-M Davis Holland/Town Crier to Big Honker Magic Fern Aid Town Crier: Belay at the anchor for 12 angry Bees then climb LFC and crack straight up to rejoin route at belay below Triple roofs. Loose block noted on topo is at the base of the wall. Green Dragon

Will Since you probably lost it here is an updated (and better) Index hit list. No particular order. 1 Jap Gardens/10% 5.11 Thin crack and face 2 Clay First pitch only. 5.11 Every kind of crack imaginable 3 Davis Holland/STP 5.10/5.11 Thin crack/face 4 Stern Farmer Thin Crack 5.12 5 Bobcat Cringe - Might be dirty great climb thin crack/face5.12 6 Dirty Laundry - Same as Bobcat Cringe 5.11+ 7 Heart's Desire face 5.11 8 Princely Ambitions then TR the Snow White Route. 9 Godzilla/Sloe Children 5.10 - Then TR Batskins (Stemming) 10 Iron Horse Thru Roof or via Sag Roof. Pro is kinda funky thru the Iron Horse roof if you don't know what it is. 11 Shirley 5.11 stemming 12 Thin Fingers/Death To Zeke 5.11 13 Fifth Force face 5.12 If it's hot check these two out! 14 Toxic Shock 5.8 hand crack 15 Even Steven 5.11 thin crack Oh Yea 16 Breakfast of Champs.Marginal Karma 5.10/5.11 Plus another couple dozen I am forgetting.

Index = Center of the universe There use to be T-shirts available proclaiming that fact!