DCramer

whats the answer?

Check out the Pulpit

The funny thing was last Saturday I was talking about this with a friend. The bolts are not “new.” In fact they pre-date cc.com. Back while compiling Sky Valley Rock I was told that some people wanted to turn the Fun Forest into a sport area. In order to spread the word about the place as a TR/lead area I decided to put it in SVR. As it turns out it was too little too late. Shortly after SVR came out I was shown a small hand drawn guide to new routes along I-90. One of the areas unknown to me was “Exit 42” which held several new routes. Later I was a bit surprised to discover an old area had been renamed and routes renamed and bolted. I went out once with the intention of removing the bolts but all I had was a crappy crescent wrench which wasn’t up to the task. The line in the second picture is The Mystical Garden of Free Wheeling Animals. A variation leading left to Wild Mouse has been bolted as well. The Pillar was originally TR’d but the main face (not the chimney) has been bolted for years and is actually a good route. I think a close look would reveal some old chopped studs. The chimney route to the left was bolted by the same group that bolted the Mystical Garden. Some old routes at the Fun Forest utilized bots. For example, Vulcan Death Group climbs past an ancient bolt ladder and the slab around to the left has a few scattered about. The area has some of the best cracks in Washington.

I can't take any credit for this clean-up. I will always accept beers however. Thanks for the work!

Great Fucking post! Jim use to say the same thing to me except it was 5.11 then! Climbing standards are much higher than they were 30 years ago. EG: When first freed both Japanese Gardens and Sloe Children were rarely climbed. Now there is a line every weekend. Tim - Did you ever hook up with Dick? I haven't heard from him in a while and was wondering what he was up to.

OK, I’ll be the first to admit trying to get something going while saying I have to stay on the ground is lame BUT I am surprised there is so little desire to give the area a full check-up and toss off the big hunks. One person said they would be up for Sunday. Any other volunteers? Arch? The mountains will be wet!

I agree something should be done. The next time I can get out there is next weekend but I'll have two young kids in tow so I'd have to stay on the ground. That said any work will be a big project closing off a wide area of the cliff. If there is enough interest (PM me), I'd be happy to talk to the Parks Dept, bring some drinks and help coordinate from the ground.

The recent rockfall in the Country are above Zoom has been the subject of a previous thread BUTyesterday I while checking out the area I saw lots of new chalk on routes directly below here => Apologies for the poor photo quality but the large rocks ready to leap off the cliff should still be easy to see. I would think twice about climbing any of the routes around Zoom

Kevbone - I do not believe that the Access Fund ever tried to dictate climbing policy at WA State Parks. The Access Fund did try to increase climber participation during State Parks drive to begin to manage climbing on its property. An umbrella climbing policy was devleoped and individual parks were encouraged to develop area specific climbing management plans. The direct intent of this structure is to ensure that local needs are met. This structure was not the result of efforts by Beacon Rock activists, but rather it was the overwhelming desire of all of the participants during the creation of the umbrella policy. As far as the Access Fund wanting to bolt the SE Corner so that sport climbers could climb it, I find that highly improbable. Why don't you send the regional rep an email and ask him directly about it and report back?

If you were going to be in up near the top, I was going to ask you to look for something. You might consider the climbing the first few pitches of Online or the corners to its left and then scooting over to Tombstone Ledge. Once there take a look at the Fly as it is not as runout as the average Static Point route. (if my memory serves me correctly) There is a really good 5.10 you can TR from the anchor.

If I remember correctly the trail up the hill from the road starts near some old culvert material. What route are you planning on climbing?

If you're taking suggestions for cleaning projects => The Shaft routes could use some work!

Sorry I missed this yesterday. Just a couple of things I thought I’d clarify. 1) I was much less interested about the status of the route or even climbing with Fender than I was in whether or not he would be willing to jump off the route upon my request. Andyf (who I have known for about 20 years) and Beckey’s (who I have known of for about the past 35 years) judgments do make me inclined to think his opinion is in error. Just after Fender called me a Dick I received a PM which contained the following: My response: 2) I receive little shit about routes I have put up, but do end up in too many discussions about all kinds of routes despite having nothing to do with their FA. On a different subject: I once belayed someone up the route shown in Weekend Climber’s photo as an end of the day tick. The route ends shortly out of the frame. I wasn’t inspired to follow it. Thanks for letting me have the last word!

Consider: 1) Beckey thought bolts were needed on Straight Street 2) A few people I spoke to who have climbed Perils thought would be pretty bold with only the last two bolts.. Then consider: For whatever reason I do not believe that anyone will take me up on my offer although clear assertions were about needed only zero bolts (Straight Street) and at most the last two bolts (Perils) My conclusion is that spray is pretty easy on cc.com. Facts are often lost in the dog pile. For example a few weeks ago someone asked who place some bolts on a certain route at Index. A cc.comer posted incorrect info. I sent him an email letting him know that and stating the correct bolter. He never went back to change his answer although he might have thought I was a Dick for sending him the pm. Alex posted about the “ethic” at Static and was simply incorrect about what that ethic was. I am not saying I am always right and they are always wrong but I am suggesting that people should be in a little less of an attack mode around here. Cheers,

As would Straight Street...if I remember correctly. No. there is a splitter crack full of dirt and bushes up the middle of the lower slab. There are a couple of places cleared for holds. Up higher the crack in the dihedral peters out for about 10 feet, then comes back at fingers. I think I "called you out" with regard to the route not being scary w/o bolts. Thus my not wanting to clean off the bottom. Bill - I am sure I am fatter than you and my balding is catching up. Plus I am still rehabing from biceps reattachment so I am sure I am slower and weaker! I'd go climbing with you sometime my current frequency of getting out is once per month! The only reason I entered the fray is people seemed to be jumping all over the guys who put these routes up and some of shit being said seemed not so plausible. I have entered the fray here many times and argued with people about routes I put up. Been blamed for stuff I havent done. It really doesn't mean that much to me. In this thread specific people are being slammed. Consequently, I think people posting here ought to be willing to back up what they say espescially when they go out of their way to say it. If they are right more power to them. If not..... Anyway if you put up enough routes people can find examples of pretty much every screw up possible.

Alex is wrong for reasons other than Mark's regarding Static as well. As far as "agressive" cleaning I suggested to Fender we not do that but got called a Dick. I'll look at his pictures later.

Cordial? Sorry if my writing (squeezed in here at work) was a bit terse. It's a bit stressed here today. I was just trying to be efficient with time. Not sure how I was a dick to Blake: He does have important plans this weekend and seems psyched to try it out. You basically called someone out and I asked you to prove it. Pretty simply. Not ridiculous. Layout of the route: I asked for your thoughts on the matter. I cannot see the pictures right now so I will have to look at it later. Although I do wonder how big the tree is!

Alright here's the scoop: Blake has inmportant plans this weekend but is psyched to go check it out. Fender: As mentioned in my earlier post I am available on Saturday only. Since Blake cannot go I would rather reschedule so both climbs can be knocked off in one day. Any thoughts? When I made the challenge I had no idea what SS was like. I have since heard that there is a scruffy gully to the left. The route doesn't follow it but it is close. (again I haven't seen it) Since this section is only near the bottom three bolts and there are several more up higher I wonder if in order to save time you would agree to consider only the bolts above the first 2 or 3. You did say that no bolts were required over the entire route. This way we can conduct this experiment quickly and I can get on with the day.

If the crack is one route. I have crack tools. If the crack is not where the route is I'll call bullshit from the start. After all you didnt claim the route is a squeeze job but rather a bolted crack. Traversing off route to the left and right won't cut it.

Looks like my Index plans a for tomorrow are going down the drain due to weather. So this thread gave me an idea. Here it is: Blake and Fenderfour and myself meet in Monroe and drive over to Leavenworth . Blake gets to lead PoP using only the last two bolts. Fender gets to lead Straight Street using no bolts. Both claimed these routes safe on gear. Blake may have already lead PoP on gear. At times of my choosing I will yell “falling”. At which point the leader (Blake or Fender) will leap of the rock and test the validity of their claims. After Blake’s lead I will happily instruct him on bolt removal. I have never seen Straight Street and my only experience in the Gun Club area was walking past on my way to Red Tide on a rainy day several years ago. I can barely remember the Gun Club area but I can remember a friend of mine, Dick, telling me PoP was a good route. I cannot remember him mentioning a bolted crack. Ron has told me that he has considered removing the bolts on Gun Club so I am not discounting the possibility that any of these routes might be bolted cracks but I am always suspicious of facts on cc.com and think it is easy to spray from the keyboard.

Index slime is the result of the tress growing taller. Back in the late 70's you could see a lot more rock from town than you can now. As far as Chasin' the Lizard, I think it is much better to traverse left (belay) and then climb a short but really fun 5.9 pitch to the ledge rather than to grovel straight up. The final short slab pitch to the top needs a scrubbing. I took off most (not all) of the berries growing on the second pitch a week or so ago. If you climb Rattletale walk over and rap the route to the left. Clean as needed.

Going to the Fenix last night instead of Chop Suey was the same as choosing to go to x38 instead of the Cookie. Damn I am getting old......

Why isn't aid climbing trad?

Back when I was a teenager Index was very much ignored and there were easy plums ripe for the picking everywhere. These plums were pretty much at a very achievable standard of the day. Nothing has changed. There are still plenty of plums ready for the picking at the achievable standards of the current day. I wonder why they aren’t being picked? Look around - expand your vision. Worrying about short anchors that for the most part have been in place longer than most Index climbers have been alive seems crazy when one of the ripest plums in the state is 25’ away. (the bottom of 10%: it's clean good pro - ready to go!) I have a list the size of my arm of great looking yet to be climbed routes. The Upper Wall has been ignored. The best free climber I know out of Wa had this to say about Town Crier: Why hasn’t p1 of Golden Arch been freed? (only a few feet are hard on the first pitch up the arch) TC and GA are clean and ready to go. Sick of “dumbed down” routes? Get on these babies – ground up, no preinspection - pure as pure can be. Same with Green Dragon and the Diamond Dihedral. The possibilties are virtually endless. Make your own tradition.

You guys can avoid the crowds on the 28th by stopping by the Town Walls!