Dwayner

quote: Originally posted by offwidthclimber: thanks for the clarification Jman. as long as you've never used any fixed gear then i guess you can say what you do without being a hypocrite. ever use slings to rap off? however, this whole conversation is still lame. it's been hashed out here over and over. this regurgitation of the issue isn't going to change a thing. The issue here isn't personal hypocrisy. Whether one has or hasn't ever clipped a bolt, banged a piton or even drilled a line of bolts is not the point and doesn't disqualify anyone from such a debate nor negate their opinion. The debate must continue here or elsewhere. I shall do so because I hope to sway climbers to a cleaner ethic, especially those new to the activity. As has been stated many times before...we figure it out, or "the man" WILL step in eventually. I don't think that too many of us want that, even though I am confident that they will side with my view. This "regurgitation" IS changing things. It inspired some folks to erase a dubious bolted line placed on a traditional route on a traditional crag, and in the aftermath, more people are considering the issue from its various facets. I'm sorry that you don't appreciate that. Also, Mr. Offwidth, rappeling off slings doesn't permanently harm the environment. Slings can be readily removed and their color can be selected to be less unsightly if aesthetics is a big concern. aloha, Dwayner [This message has been edited by Dwayner (edited 07-23-2001).]

Brother Yossarian: The environment is everyone's business. Personally, I think environmental ethics in climbing have gone down the toilet in the last thirty years. As I've stated before, the clean climbing revolution that occured in the 1970's, and which resulted in the further development of chocks and the invention of cams, was a revolt against the permanent alteration of the rock. The introduction and eventual normalization of sport-climbing has seemingly thrown that notion out the window. Many people seem to think that drilling a line of bolts to create a sport route is some sort of real contribution to human progress. Climbing in general is pretty darn insignificant in the big picture, but if we're going to do it, we should at least respect the rock, and leave it nice for future generations. I assume that everyone packs their garbage out of the mountains rather than glueing it the side of the rock or leaving it shoved in cracks? By the way, there have been some great statements about the negative bolting from the likes of Doug Scott, Yvon Chouinard and even Rheinhold Messner. If I can collect these, I'll probably post them together somewhere on the internet. My two cents....for the moment. - Dwayner

Who cares if the original first ascent used knifeblades. The fact is, it went CLEAN well before the new bolts were added. Perhaps all bolts should be removed from sport climbs that can be protected clean. There would go half the attrocious bolts at Vantage! Or how about Numbah Ten at Index, a climb regularly aided on small gear (so it's known that protection can be placed) but some "big-shot" thought he'd do the world a favor by adding a line of bolts so that IT WOULD GO FREE!!! HURRAY!!!! "The rock is permanently damaged but I free climbed it and didn't pound any pins!!! Maybe I'll get my name in a guide book and people will think I'm COOL!!!" WE CALL THIS BOLTING STUFF PROGRESS????

I applaud the removal of the DDD bolts and from what I can gather from the assorted comments, the fellows involved are interested in doing a good job of it, that is, a restoration rather than a mere hacking. At the bottom of this issue is the matter of ideals. Would you like to leave relatively pristine crags for future generations? Or would you prefer to permanently deface the rock to satisfy your ego in the present? (or lack of desire/ability to lead a challenging route cleanly in this case). This act sends a statement that should cause us to think before bolting a) traditional routes on traditional crags b) bolting anywhere else. If you don't want to lead cleanly at Castle or anywhere else, top-rope it. And if you fall, you're dangling anyway, just like a lead on a sport climb. When I started climbing (1973), every bolt drilled was a major ethical decision because we were fully aware of the permanence of the act. It was also the time of the clean-climbing revolution, where pitons and bolts were being shuffled out in preference for gear that would not damage the rock. (See the essays in the Chouinard catalogs of that era for some truly progressive thinking.) With the coming of sport climbing to our shores, this sort of important environmental ethic has seemingly gone to the wayside, and so many new climbers are acustomed to thinking that bolting wherever, whenever is the acceptable norm. (The guys who bolted DDD should have known better.) I don't have any hot tips on how to fill holes with granite dust or whatever, but methods of restoration would be a worthy subject of investigation. My only complaint is that they damaged the hangars which I think should have been returned to the owners to emphasize the point that this isn't hacking, vandalism, or theft but an ethical and environmental statement. Sincerely, Dwayner P.S. Good job, guys, but a little quiet dignity in the aftermath would keep the spray-monkeys more at bay, and would also reinforce the notion that you are making a serious statement. Also: Quit bitching about the price of the crowbar, it cheapens the issue. I'll gladly reimburse you if that's a real problem. [This message has been edited by Dwayner (edited 07-20-2001).]

Sir Daniel, mi amigo! I ain't admittin' to nothin' much. Let me have the dignity of "outing" myself when and to whom I please. that's why a bunch of us have phony names around here...it's not necessarily to absolve ourselves from the responsibility of our own "spray", but to add a little fun and mystery and to protect ourselves from the scary guys who might take our banter too seriously. That's all. O.K.? Here's the scoop: I'm a professional male model married to a daughter of a former President and am Lance Armstrong's private trainer. I am also ambassador to the United Nations representing Spire Rock in the General Assembly. There...I think I told you too much already. - dddddddddwwwwwwwwwaaaaa....whatever!

You wanna see a REAL man? Lance Armstong, all American, is now placed 3rd in the Tour de France. You wanna see a guy make all of your 5.14 sport climbing/peak baggin'/big wallin' heroes look like total pansies? Watch him smoke through the Pyranees in the next few days. I've never been into that bicycle racing scene myself although I do the mountain biking and triathlon stuff occasionally so it ain't like I'm promoting my big sport. I just started watching this stuff this year and some of the guys are amazing and inspirational not matter what sport your concentrating on.

By the way, believe it or not, it's Spire Rock's 25th birthday this summer - it was formally dedicated in 1976. Many thanks to Wayne Cook - the man behind the rock - and his numerous volunteers including the young Jimmy Yoder for building that rock that has given us hours of entertainment and a good workout once in awhile. Hey, I'm going out there this afternoon and slug a few Mickey's in Spire's honor. You wanna join me, I'll see you c. 5:30. You bring the cake and the snacks and I'll show you the best place to practice your "Aussie rapell" face-plants. aloha, Dwayner

I could write a book about all the goofy stuff I've seen at Spire Rock but lucky for you, I won't. Here's a sample: One night, me and a buddy were out climbing (the field lights illuminated the place). I pulled over the top of the tower section to confront a steaming pile of recently deposited human dung. I carefully avoided the mess but decided that my pal should have the pleasure of discovery himself. Indeed he did as he did some sort of dyno and slapped his hand smack in the middle. Needless to say, he chased me up and down the rock for the next five minutes trying to fling and wipe goo on me. On another occasion, I saw some G.I.'s take a brand new rope out of a plastic bag, tie one end to a fixed anchor on top of the rock, and the other to the bumber of their jeep. They told me they were setting up a "slide for life". They tightened the line and the jeeps wheels were actually spinning as their new 150 ft. rope stretched permanently to about 180. They spent the afternoon, "sliding for life", often grounding out in the process. At the end of the day, they had to cut the knot on the Spire anchor because it was practically melted tight. Just another typical day at Spire Rock....

RE: Brother Jardine: Does one need to accept and endorse the totality of someone's life and career to admire a part of it? What kind of sloppy thinking is that? I personally think Ray Jardine's chipping of the Nose was an utter atrocity. On the other hand, I am capable of admiring his revolutionary approach to light wilderness travel. Would most of you want to be judged for the rest of your life for your lamer moments? Or would you like to be known for your more positive accomplishments? I don't wholly endorse every aspect of "the Ray Way" (e.g. his corn pasta fanaticism) but he's taught me a lot of good things. Even the best people make mistakes from time to time, eh? Do you use "Friends" or similar devices? You can thank Ray or you can refuse to buy cams because "The Chipper" was the innovator. I'll gratefully use the dang "Friends" AND be disappointed in the eccentric genius for his more dubious activities. I've even got a couple of old pals who are masters of the bolt drill, but I still like them as friends even though I find their bolting behavior obscene. I can separate the two, although I encourage them to change their "evil" ways. So, carry those 50 pound packs if you want, you studs. I'm going to bag a series of peaks with my Camelback, adventure racing shoes, and a pair of collapsable Leki's. - Dwayner

Sir Toby: The short answers to your questions. 1) carefully 2) it's a writing style, much cuter than writing "I", "I", "I", "I" over and over again. Yes, I admit it's goofy, but I aim to entertain while I'm sharing what I hope to share. 3) No. By the way, my fake internet name is "Dwayner", not "Dwayne". "sincerely", "Dwayner"

No problem, Mr. Dru. Right now I'm typing this while in suspended hang-time; the computer key-board taped high above my "campus" board in the garage. I launched from a micro-pocket while in full clench and when I'm done with this message, I will slap a sloper and high-five myself with my opposite hand as I crash onto to my new down-filled sketch-pad with its special chalk-resistant fabric treatment guaranteed to keep the colors of its zany floral pattern bright and cheerful for many dyno's to come!!!! Thanks for the challenge, m'man! I'm going to try it again in an hour or two, although it takes me about 10 minutes to get "the clench" up to full-speed. (I'll have to work on that!). - ahoy, Dwayner

Me 'n pope? Whatcha talkin' about! I traded him last week for a pack of cigarettes!

Now why can't kids these days look up to a truly heroic figure like Armstrong instead of emulating sleaze-bag, foul-mouthed rap spewers or other lightweight pseudo-role-models? These guys on the Tour de France are riding full-speed for up to 120 miles often over brutal mountainous terrain for like 20 days in a row. I'm embarassed to admit it but they make most climbers and Ironman triathletes look like real wussies! If you aren't watching it, there is live coverage of it several times daily on the Outdoor Life Network and elsewhere. Grab some athletic inspiration while it lasts! - Dwayner...humbled by a bunch of skinny guys on bicycles.

Tacoma Cascade Climbers Pub Night...didn't know what to expect...showed up at 7:40...no one there. Then these guys showed up. Some of the big celebrities from cascadeclimbers.com. And you know what? ALL OF YOU GUYS ROCK!!!! It was a pleasure to meet each and everyone of you!!! No posturing, no violence, and very little bad-mouthing...just a lot of beer and new pals and some great climbing babble. I hope it works out as nicely for future such events wherever you have them. Thanks, you guys, for the fun evening! aloha, "Dwayner"

Crazyjz!....must....climb....big....wall... ...can't....find....jumars....'nuf said! Iambone? Some day I'm gonna go into that gym of yours and show you a couple of sick, heinous bouldering sit starts that will make your head spin. They'll have to invent a whole new color of tape just to mark my new routes. And then I'll sit down on a bench (if you's got one there), pick the gravel out of my extra-tight lycra, and say: "Brother 'bone...now it's your turn. work your magic." aloha, Dwayner

Apology accepted, Mr. Special, but not needed. You can buy me a beer tonight at that "pub" function. Also, trust me, there ain't no rivalry between me and that Iambone feller in the gym. For there to be rivalry, there has to be some basis for competition. And when it comes to sport climbing, clipping bolts and setting fake handholds into a plywood wall to create clever challenges, he know doubt has me beat! Don't know the guy. It's all together possible he could be a terrific dude! It's hard to tell just by the nature of his postings. Hard to tell sometimes who's being playful in a smart-ass way, and who has deep-seated feelings of animosity. Yet...another unsolved technical mystery of the information highway. Special Ed? One word....Googook-kaju! - Dwayner

Special Ed,m'man. You be gettin feisty t'day! Your mocking attitude is beginning to sound like that li'l feller in the gym. Sorry, to disappoint you. The whole story is COMPLETELY true and if I added some of the other details (which are really bizarre!) I wouldn't blame you if you thought I was full of it. Now turn off the Brady Bunch and go out there....and...and do something exciting..go buy lunch or whatever. - Dwayner

Thank you, Mr. Iambone, for so splendidly re-emphasizing my original statement in your own words. You don't have to like my style, you don't have to like my stories, you don't have to like the fact that people "older" than you (which are probably most climbers with significant experience) and have something to share, even if anecdotes. (I suppose you avoid all the "big-shot" slide lectures, too?) You are welcome to consider and disregard what you choose. What a country! How about this for a solution to your irritation, "young-timer": When you see the name "Dwayner" on a posting here, don't read it! Avoid it because it will only sour your day. Same thing with anybody else whose style you just don't prefer! - Professor Dwayner

Shalom, my friends! So much violent talk! Where's the old aloha spirit? And keep me out of your psycho fantasy wrestling scenarios. I ain't interested in tussling with Mr. Caveman or any of my other righteous climbin' bru-thas. And as for incoherent babbling? There's more where that's coming from, especially if you're buying the next pitcher! If I can get my walker fixed I'll see if I's can shuffle downstairs to see if the Extreme Games are on TV yet...or is that in August! Dang! Better wait for the mailman to show up with my latest issue of Rock and Ice...it's the highlight of my month!!! - Dwayner (P.S. My walker? It's made from several 90cm WWII mountain division ice axes tied together with old hemp - learned how to do it from my other geezer age-mates in their early 40's - John Long, Lynn Hill and such - likewise way over the hill and seeking attention from anyone who will listen...bllbllblbl...Hey you kids....don't do anything dangerous...watch out for them dangling chock picks...they can snag ya in the gonads...just ask me! Way back in 1997....)

Uh...I looked at an earlier post from some other parallel string and it says: 7 o'clock on Tuesday. I assume that's P.M. although 7 AM is never too early for a mouth full o'Mickeys! [This message has been edited by Dwayner (edited 07-16-2001).]

So when's this big-ole beer-drinkin spray-fest in Tacoma tommorow? So who's the instigator buying the first round? It's at the Parkway, right? Some directions for the out-of-towners? Who's providing the "Hello! My name is________" name-tags? Do they got Mickey's on tap? Should we wear gaitors like the guy I saw show up at a Doug Scott slide-show at the U.W. a few years ago? So many questions! I'm so confused! The short version: what are the details, friendly organizer? - Thirsty Dwayner

Here's a story about "pope". (I don't think he'll mind....) Back when he was a single guy, I was traveling around in his rat-mobile and noticed that he had a wedding ring sitting in the ash-tray. I asks him what wid that? He told me that he'd put it on when he goes into a bar and he meets more women!!! Go figure!!! I've heard this from others, too, so I don't think he came up with this one on his own. Also: yah, he is kinda of goofy-lookin', but for some reason, he remains a babe-magnet! Maybe he's got special pheromones that are released only by climbing. I've always found climbing to have the almost opposite effect. Insights? - Dwayner. P.S. Me and Donna Top-Step?...purely platonic. Pope, on the other hand, had quite a history with that li'l vixen! (She moved to Boulder about a week ago.)

Nope. Climbing hasn't ruined my life, yet. I was already a climbing fanatic when I met my wife. Dated her for five years before getting married, all the while climbing like a maniac. Got married and was involved in the guiding business for some time while in graduate school and continued to climb thereafter. 21 years later, nothin's changed other than I don't do unroped solo climbs near my limit anymore since our little feller came into our lives 8 years ago. And I wear a helmet more often for the same reason. And I don't go on really long (e.g. 3 months) trips anymore (and that's because I don't want to.) And I might not get out quite as much because I'm trying to make the $$$ although I try to climb or doing something adventurous at least once a week. And the spousal unit? She kicks my butt out the door sometimes and tells me to get out and go climbing because I get dang frustrated if I don't. But I know that such is not always the case and might not be the norm. 'got newly-married friends who are getting the pressure to quit their beloved sport...stay home, mow the lawn, paint the trim and get the BBQ fired up...yah! well I do all of those things AND go climbing!!! So what wid dat???

Ahoy, Crag-Monkeys! Anybody lose their wife/girlfriend/husband/boyfriend because of your excessive devotion to mountaineering? I knew a few characters who started climbing well into their marriages, and it caused great distress. Too much new competition for time, money, plus new friends, danger-stress and so forth. The result: divorce, ultimatums, broken hearts, etc. Now if you're going to respond to this, the following do not count: a) you are by nature a jackass and the climbing was just an excuse to get rid of your miserable butt; b) your wife or whatever was a pain in the rear and you took up climbing to get the heck out of town once in awhile. The dissolution has to be the direct result of your climbing habits. Also, I've known some folks who have used the "I'm so dedicated to climbing that no one understands me" line to try to get sympathy from girls in bars. Gag!!!!! If I was a girl, I would get some free drinks, run and hide. On the other hand, there is the case of John Shaft: "no one understands him BUT his woman." ("They say that Shaft is one bad motha..." Shut yo mouth! "Jus talking about Shaft!) aloha, Dwayner, lookin' for a new topic.

Hey! You want some first class tips on how to move light in the outdoors? Check out the following book written by Ray Jardine, the climber who invented "Friends". He's done the PCT three times and his pack weighed less than 9 pounds on his third trip. He has a whole philosophical approach to long-distance lightweight hiking that's somewhat eccentric but well worth considering. A friend of mine followed "The Ray Way" and did the PCT completely across Oregon wearing tennis shoes, and with a pack made out of a large stuff bag that weighed nothing...no tent (just a tarp) and no sleeping bag. They were comfortable the whole time and made a lot of daily mileage. Here's the book (they should have it at REI): "Beyond Backpacking: Ray Jardine's guide to lightweight hiking." My copy was published in 2000 by AdventureLore Press. A lot of this stuff is transferable to mountaineering, too. - Dwayner