Dwayner

Hikerwa: nobody gonna come unless them girls say theys gonna show up.

Supermodels love climbers. I used to date supermodels exclusively, but then I got tired of the eccentricities...expensive dinners offered to "the facilities" minutes after consumption, the constant preening, the mood-swings, the phonecalls at 3 AM, etc. I've recently run across a news item that yet again reinforces why climbers should NOT date supermodels: "Kate's stolen anus: Art is arse." British artists Jake and Dinos Chapman are reported to have had a break-in at their East London studio. Missing from the studio are a number of close up medical-style photos of famous models' anuses, among them Kate Moss's. The pictures were taken were taken with permission of the models and were to form the basis of a new artwork. Anyone being offered a large photo of the Moss ringpiece should phone the police." Hey! I just got another great auction idea for raising money for the access fund!!!!

These guys speak the truth! I just blasted out there and spent over 80 bucks on some great stuff. They're all stamped "salvage" on the bottom but they's looked fine to me! Big old coffee table book on the history of Mt. Blanc, autobiography of Chris Bonnington, biography of Hermann Buhl, Messner's book on the 8,000 meter peaks, Fred Beckey's McKinley book,some guide books, AND IF YOU'RE LUCKY...YOU MIGHT EVEN FIND A COPY OF BIG LOU'S AUTOBIOGRAPHY, FOR ONLY $7! A BARGAIN AT 10 TIMES THAT PRICE! - Dwayner

That bobsled/skeleton/luge stuff is cool, but nonetheless, Lance Armstrong makes all of those guys, and most climbers, look like a bunch of weenies!

Lambone: "dude" is a part of my Southern California cultural roots. I shudder to think of the origins of your linguistic potty training.

Hey, there, sparky...brother erik...that's way over the top!!! now you put me in the position of having to defend my climbing buddy who I just took down a notch...How the heck did you come up with "oh my god pope is a c#@k chugger too!!!!" from my use of the time-worn expression, "Are you on drugs?".? dude...that's way out of line. pope...I don't knows what's gotten into this feller...a former alpine buddy of the week...but erik...gee whiz! That's a real stretch, my friend! OY!!! - your pal, Dwayner

pope: are you on drugs???? "Donna" just called me from Colorado this morning. This is the run-down, folks....pope and "Donna Top-Step" had this fling just a few years ago...back when pope was still living in his parents basement. It was my bad for introducing the two..(By the way, Donna ain't her real name - I've known her for years and all though we've had our ups and downs [no pun intended], we're still good friends and she evens stays at my house when she's in town). Anyway, she's a superb alpinist and they did some pretty wild climbs together but the final straw was this Alaska trip they went on together during which she stormed off angry after pope apparently crapped on his own sleeping bag. I have seen a few photos from this generally very disfunctional trip and have heard both sides of the story plus a few choice anecdotes from other parties in the area. pope is still pretty embarrassed about the whole thing and continues to distance himself from the ugly truth. Donna used to post on here but she was given a lot of abuse and told me a couple of months ago that she can't log on. Anyway, nice bluff, pope...and trying to make a connection between Ginger...oops!..I mean "Donna" and RURP is a far stretch. I've never met RURP, but he ain't no Donna Top-Step! - Dwayner

Yah, Vegetable Dude! I've got this big room full of computers here and I'm logged onto about 20 of them right now. In fact, not only am I pope and Dwayner, I'm also Erik, Alpine K, Uncle Tricky, Matt, MattP, Icegirl,and Vegetable Belay plus many of your other favorites. It's kind of fun being a lonely guy, where I can have all of these imaginary friends, swap beta with myself and get into spray wars when I'm in a bad mood. You been to them pub clubs? All them other people were professional actors. I employ so it looks as if I know a bunch of cool cats.

Hikerwa: I'm too shy to call into your talk-show, but could you ask this Simonson-guy a few questions? "Why is your nickname "Simo"? Who the hell came up with that one?" "Do you date supermodels?" Here's an Opra-esque question he might enjoy answering: "If you could be any piece of rock pro, would you be a #7 hex, a #9 stopper, or one of them itty-bitty little #0 R.P.'s? Why?" "Do you know Big Lou?" And as for you, imorris, where did you get that picture of my girlfriend training for the Ice Capades?

Question: what does the flaming torch of the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City and last night's Club Pub gathering in Seattle have in common?Answer: the word "spectacular"!Once again, a veritable Who's Who of climbing was present last night. I was surprised to be greeted by the pop of flashbulbs as I entered the venue...the European climbing paparazzi were in full force and were removed by the managers in short order. (Unfortunately, Alpine K's driver, personal chef, and masseuse were all tossed out with the reporters. "They're used to it," he said, and continued drinking.) So many people showed up that THE TABLES HAD TO BE ACTUALLY REARRANGED!!! Matt P was already there when I arrived...effortlessly cool, signing autographs for droves of fans of all ages. I finally intervened with a stern: "Hello!!! Uh, Private Par-tay!!!" That seemed to do the trick. Speaking of tricks, Uncle Tricky was there and tricked us all by being virtually unrecognizable. Apparently the Amish expelled him from the commune and he's now clean-shaven, and was being checked out by both the barflys and sportclimbers on the troll. Lookin' good, babe, but have you thought of the long-term effects it's going to have on your ZZ-TOP tribute band? At one point, the bar manager came up to us with a big stack of papers..."enough", he yelled. "I'm out of FAX paper and I'm turning the machine off!" It was basically a fistful of telegrams: Royal Robbins said he might show up late but don't count on it. Warren Harding wished us the best of luck for a fun-filled evening. Doug Scott's plane was late so he probably wasn't going to make it. etc. Clint Eastwood and George Kennedy,etc. Gaston Rebuffat would have been there, but he's dead. Ed Hillary called MattP on his cell phone and asked if we liked Uncle Tricky's new look. "Yes we do", we all yelled in unison. We got a FAX from Argentina from a "Mister Andrew Warhol" but we think it was a fake. Did I mention that Erik from Tacoma was there and his friend John? And Dr. Jay, looking suave in his Bangkok-purchased silken medical pajamas...Dave, Matt, and a dozen other celebrities too numerous to name were also present... Was it a Sausage Ranch, you ask? HECK NO! The lovely and talented Allison appeared, dressed to stun...and she did. There was another young lady there (Victoria?) who didn't talk to me so I didn't give her the dozen fresh roses I brought for her...that's the breaks...I gave them to an anonymous girl at the 7-11 on the way home in exchange for a Slurpee. There was a lot of grumbling and mumbling about Icegirl. She had chosen the location of this gathering (with its crappy parking) yet was nowhere to be seen. She finally arrived around 10 PM, and it was well worth the wait. This delightful young alpinist should change her internet name from "Icegirl" to "Cutegirl"! Yowsa! She charmed the socks off of several of us. Then again, that's pretty easy to do when you're sitting next to Alpine K.There was lots of beer....torn up and thrown beer coasters, and a variety of entertaining party-like antics. Beta was swapped, modified and swapped again. Party fouls? Here's a big tip from the pro's: Festive social gatherings are no place to discuss climbing ethics, especially if you have deeply held beliefs...but several made the mistake of asking me, and they received "the rant". The effect of my animated conversation was that of a "Baby Ruth in a swimming pool", to quote one of those present, and it wasn't long before I was isolated...alone near the end of the table, just me and Al the Rainier-climbing airline pilot, and we had a good "we don'ts cares what nobodies says" conversation. The party raged until 12:30...and if you weren't there, ten years from now, we'll be hearing the old Woodstock effect:Number of people at last night's Pub Club: 25Number of people claiming to have "been there" at last night's Pub Club: 2,500. - Dwayner

Hey Hikerwa! Can you ask him if he knows Big Lou? ciao, babe! - Dwayner

It's another Club Pub night...and it promises to be the largest gathering of climbing excellence yet assembled in the western United States. Do not let this occasion drift into yet another Sausagefest. Allison and Icegirl will be there so you won't be alone with a bunch of dudes. And how about you, JULES??? Holly Climber...c'mon....the rest of you....Free beer??? Nickerson Street Saloon, 318 Nickerson Street, SeattleTel: (206) 284-8819 c. 7:30 PM

Will be correct. "It's from Tinseltown Rebellion" and that poem should speak truth to all of you. Some of you are feeling a little uncomfortable with what Franky Z. has to say about it all, eh??? So how about that prize I promised???? THERE AIN'T NO PRIZE, SUKKA! That's my own pathetic version of spray. - Dwayner

Alright, I've had a few now... NOW IT'S POETRY TIME!!! And a prize for whoever can figure out what the hell this is: "THE BLUE LIGHT"Your ethosYour pathosYour PorthosYour AramisYour Brut CologneYou're writing homeYou are hopelessYour hopelessnessIs rising around you, rising around youYou like itIt gives you something to doIn the day timeHey buddy, you need a hobbyYou are tired of moving forwardYou think of the futureAnd secretly you piddle your pantsThe puddle of piddleWhich used to be littleIs rising around you, rising around youYou like itIt gives you something to doIn the night time Oh well, you travel to barsYou also go to Winchell's DoughnutsAnd hang out with the Highway PatrolSometimes you'll go to a pizza placeYou go to Shakey's to get thatAmerican kind of pizzaThat has the ugly, waxey, fake yellowKind of cheese on the top...Maybe you'll go to Straw Hat Pizza,To get all those artificial ingredientsThat never belonged on a pizza in the first place(But the white people really like it...)Oh well, you'll go anyplace, you'll do anythingOh you'll give me your underpantsI hope these aren't yours, buddy...They're very nice, thoughYou go to Santa Monica Boulevard,You go to the Blue ParrotNo problem, you'll go anyplaceYou'll do anythingJust so you can hang out with the othersThe others just like youAfraid of the future(Death Valley Days straight ahead)The future is scary(Yes it sure is)Well, the puddle is risingIt smells like the oceanA body of water to isolate EnglandAnd also ResedaThe oil in patchesAll over Atlantis, AtlantisYou remember AtlantisDonovan, the guy with the brocade coatUsed to sing to you about AtlantisYou loved it, you were so involved thenThat's back in the days when you used toSmoke a bananaYou would scrape the stuff off the middleYou would bake itYou would smoke itYou even thought you was getting ripped from itNo problemWoop! Atlantis, they could really get down thereThe plankton, the krillThe giant underwater pyramid, the squid decorExcuse me, ToddThe big ol' giant underwater doorThe dome, the bubbles, the blue lightLight, light, light, lightLight, light, light, lightBlue light blue lightThe seepage, the sewage, the rubbers, the napkinsYour ethos, your Porthos,Your flag pole, your port holeYour languageYou're frightenedThe futureYour lang...You can't even speak your own fucking languageYou can't read it anymoreYou can't write it anymoreYour languageThe future of your languageYour meat loafDon't let your meat loafHeh, heh, hehYour Micro-NanetteHehYour BrutCologne Give Dwayner another one.... thanks!

Dang, offwidthclimber....I consumed my sixer of Mickey's around breakfast time...that would have been about 3 hours ago...let me check to sees what I's got...I've got some port...that ain't bad in small doses...here it goes! Yes! OK, and here's some cheap table wine...let me find a long straw...OK, I'm ready now...all we're missing is the spray, but I suppose we got 25 topics of that already. But here's to ya, offwidthclimber!!

Come on, Caveman. Show up. I'll let you buy me a beer. Seriously, man, I hope you'll make an appearance. I'd have a drinking contest with you but I already know that you'd win. ahoy! - Dwayner and 100 beautiful young ladies.

Mr. Lambert/Lambone or whatever: I'm really disappointed. Crude discourse such as: "Your such a fuckin hypocrite pope. All you do is talk shit on this site...", in my opinion, is way out of line. Yesterday it was raining and after bailing from Index, me and pope gave your gym a call. (Some other guy named Matt answered and said you weren't in). We were looking forward to finally meeting you and sharing a few laughs. After reading the above, I'm not disappointed and I'm not particularly interested. Good luck! - Dwayner And by the way....that kind of language doesn't cut it in the real world, so I hope you know when to shut it off.

Argument with Caveman? What argument with Caveman? The first time I met him, the guy accidentally drank my beer when I went left to visit the restroom but I got over that long ago! If you be speaking about the pub club tug-o-wars; that was something that needed to be sorted out. I'm not convinced it has yet because Caveman himself has been trying to arrange a nice venue on his turf repeatedly and his turn is probably well overdue. How about some drinkin' in Caveman-land next week? And Cave-dude: you got a whole room full of buddies when you show up. - your drinkin' pal, Dddddddwwwayner

And thanks JayB and Max, for your thoughtful and often witty comments. No need to "kill" the discussion. It has a life of its own and will come and go as the opportunity arises, but rarely in such a civil manner (unfortunately). - Dwayner

Brother Max: My comments aren't necessarily age-specific and I stick by them. There are also a lot of "older" people just beginning to climb who are equally clueless to the issues. I believe it is a fact that the majority of new participants in "climbing" these days are getting their education in gyms and sport areas. It's very attractive as the learning curve is very short and the social opportunities are many. I don't care how old or young anyone is, the concerns remain. And if the "youngsters" get a lot of the blame, it might be because they command the majority of the attention in the mag's, etc. Ultimately, I don't care how you climb...you can hang on pro all you want, if you choose, and I can have my own opinion on style, but when it comes to permanently altering the rock, or leaving your garbage on Everest, I believe there are some issues worthy of consideration. As far as I'm concerned, the clean climbing revolution continues, although in need of revival, and you are as welcome as anyone to help spread the word. - Comrade Dwayner Cheers, mate! By the way..."young fart", as far as "lecturing" is concerned...you and others of all ages could learn alot from people who have been around a bit...some of my heroes and mentors are in their seventies and eighties and offer insights I would probably not gather from someone else without the life experience. It's up to you to listen, question and evaluate, and to adopt, alter or dismiss. And sorry, I'm afraid that I can't take credit for the original "bolt-clipping pussy" quote.

In the words of Mr. JayB:However, where I draw the line is when folks who adhere to a certain creed insist that the rest of the world should abide by their dictums or be damned...I’ve heard the arguments for complete abstinence – preserving the opportunity for future climbers to free solo death routes (just look at all of the climbers clamoring for the opportunity today...)Such extreme rhetoric! Some of us believe that bolting should be rare and each bolt should be justified. I also believe that many presently bolted routes could have been climbed with a top-rope, thus preserving the rock. It's just as easy to hang off the end of a rope on a top-rope as it is to dangle from a bolt you just clipped, except in the former case, you leave the rock to enjoy in a more natural state for generations to come. Adding bolts to existing climbs changes its character (e.g. Dan's Dreadful Direct). If you don't like it(too hard, too dangerous, etc.), you can always stay off of it (or top-rope it). Not everything needs to be climbed nor drilled into submission. As I mentioned months ago during that whole DDD controversy, most of Castle Rock is how it was 25 years ago when I first climbed there. I would like to see it in similar condition 25 years from now. I can't say that much for Vantage which I think is an utter disgrace. "equating drilling a 3/8ths bolt to the environmental equivalent to another Valdez or Chernobyl, etc." That's quite an exaggeration you're making there, sir, almost on par with the fellow who used the term "terrorist" to describe someone who was removing bolt hangers from Vantage sport climbs. "Sort of like a Franciscan monk extolling the virtues of chastity in the middle of a whorehouse."Nice turn of phrase, amigo!: "a Franciscan monk in the middle of a whore house"! That's exactly how I felt the last time I visited Vantage. (Or was it a Benedictine?) "And just like the aforementioned Monk, advocates of sensible restraints on bolting would make a lot more headway, in my opinion, if they eased up on the condemnation and damnation if they were to confine their sermons to the proper venues and pick their battles a bit more carefully. Otherwise most climbers (folks who likely include bouldering and sport climbing in their retinue) will inevitably regard them in much they same way they view the crazy-eyed street proselytizers sporting a bottle of Night Train in one hand and a “Repent or Perish” placard in the other – that is, as zealots whose perspective is so divorced from reality that it needn’t even be acknowledged, much less taken seriously, and who’s concern for broadcasting their own righteousness far outweighs any ostensible concern they may have for the cause they’re railing on behalf of..."I would venture to say that a great many of the people entering "climbing" today are introduced to such by way of a gym or sport climbing area, and have no idea that there is anything potentially dubious about the effects of bolting, etc. Some of us began our climbing careers with the birth of what was called "clean climbing". The damage of pitons and bolts was explicitly recognized and revolutionary attempts were made to avoid this sort of "dirty" climbing. (Not to speak of hanging on pro as "free climbing" which I consider a stylistic rather than an environmental issue.) With the normalization of "sport climbing" and widespread rap-bolting, etc., the clean-climbing revolution seems to have been mostly forgotten. A few of us missionaries, still survive to spread the word, and will continue to do so. And not all of us are bolt-chopping fanatics, either. "And as far as the term, “Dis” is concerned, I’m willing to wager that this, like many other neologisms from days past will make its way into everyday language much to the chagrin of prescriptive lexicographers everywhere."Au contraire, mon frere, I predict that the word "dis" will become a lexical artifact in the manner of "groovy" and "phat"; a temporal linguistic marker that while in some sense expressive, will not be accepted in formal spoken English. What? You want to hear more...? Hey...put down that ether! Get that stuff away from me! What the...

"come on, Beck, AlpineK, Dave P, EddieE, ChrisW, Ehmic... where are you guys..." What up, Hikerwa!: we've suffered through you eating many of them greasy Alki biker-burgers along with uncommon amounts of beer, yet you neglected your beloved friends from the South (except for Eddie E who has newly migrated to the City of Destiny.)and elsewhere. Whether you like it or not, Mr., there's going to be a contingent from Tacoma. Erik...you in with me on this one? And that other guy....you too? And what about all them other folks from elsewhere: Chuck, for example, or that vegetable guy...and what about the lovely Holly Climber who has not been seen in ages?...same for Dynamite. How could you possibly not mention the effortlessy cool Matt P? How could you forget that guy? Jon the moderator...allison and icegirl...and Jules...And how about some of them mystery guys like RURP and Trask? And that guy staring at the computer screen right now clutching the O'Doul's. You gonna show up? Luvya, babe, but it's time to expand your circle of climbing pals. aloha, Dwayner P.S. Where and when this dang deal gonna be?

"So, if it can't be Cavey, I am hoping for..." Dwayner. Sorry, Holly, but I've got my own place. aloha, Dwayner

Brother JayB:He say: "However, the "No matter how hard you climb,if you clip bolts then you are a pussy and I'm a better, purer climber than you are, bow before me" routine really starts to grate after a while."The part about clipping the bolts I contend is true but I don't necessarily think I'm better or require the bowing (that's strictly optional), but I would say I'm cleaner and purer in the sense that a) I don't condone the widespread bolting that is the mainstay of sport-climbing, but instead am an advocate of "clean" - as little trace as possible - climbing (which means bolts are a last resort, not a first) and b) I can admit that I can't climb 5.13 on-sight, and would not fool myself into believing that I am a "5.13 climber" if I had managed to accomplish such a thing by repeated rehersal, hanging and inspection, sometimes over a period of days or weeks, with the aid of super-specialized footwear, etc. That would be a form of self-delusion. I'm impressed by climbers that can lead hard trad from the bottom up in such a way that it leaves little trace and remains intact for the next generation. c) bouldering....I just don't get it. It appears goofy and the most trivial of the trivial, but that's a matter of personal taste. And furthermore...I still don't buy into this don't "diss" [hopfully the first and last time I ever use such a term] it if you can't do it nonsense...it's an utterly specious argument. It's an opinion...it's worth what you paid for it.Having said that, I appreciate JayB's exceptional civility, which is often lacking in these sorts of commentary.Go forth and do great things.- Dwayner [ 02-15-2002: Message edited by: Dwayner ]

Brother JayB say:"I understand the desire to insult those aspects of the sport that you do not excel at or just plain dislike."Dwayner say:I have no desire to insult whoever; I am merely expressing a perspective which I think needs to be brought out from time to time. You don't know from Dwayner, and from what he does or does not excel at, so a bit less speculation, sir. And by the way, if you read my comments, many of them are making light of what I consider to be utterly absurd - Don Quijote vs. the boulders, "tragedy" at Fontainebleau, etc. Mountaineering itself is rather frivolous but from my viewpoint this is really scraping the bucket. But hey! What a country! I'm glad I live in a place where people can fixate on such things and actually survive quite well. Brother JayB say:"If you're a self proclaimed member of the "old-school" and trad/mountaineering is the only aspect of the sport that appeals to you - great. If everything that's associated with sport climbing, bouldering, etc. makes you want to retch - fine."Dwayner say: Exactly! "There's plenty of room for that perspective in the sport, and in general I think that having a few folks around who stand up for risk, commitment, judgement, and the integrity of old, bold routes of yore such as DDD is a healthy thing for climbing." Dwayner say: Thank you! Brother JayB say: "It is disappointing, however, to see someone from who abides by a such a strict code of ethics ignore what I thought was one of the most important ethics of all – don’t diss it until you’ve done it."Dwayner say: Sorry, my friend, but that's not my code of ethics...it's more of a weak cliche that's been making the rounds for years. I haven't joined the Taliban, shot up heroin, or wasted two weeks on a boulder problem because basically, I think all three are lame! Shalom, amigo...do what you do, man. You ain't here to please Dwayner and he ain't here to please you! [ 02-15-2002: Message edited by: Dwayner ]