Dwayner

MYSTERY SOLVED. I pretended I was in Chicago and tried voting twice and got shut down. Nice feature. Democracy "wins" again. Now register all of your non-climbing friends in your office building, dead relatives, avatars and so forth. Speaking of "avatars", I guess those who have several of them got a heap more sway now! Plato believed that the ideal government should be ruled by a "philosopher king" because the masses were incapable of making sound decisions. I hearby nominate Dwayner as the North American Alpine Decision Maker and he will hand out edicts on such subjects as pub club locations, bolting and the illegality of sit-starts. It's easy for everybody because all you have to do is listen, nod your head in agreement and obey. Hey you! That dude reading this with a bone in your nose! Fetch me another burger and a couple of Mickey's . Thank you, my friend! See how easy that was? - Dwayner

Hey webmaster/pollmeister! What keeps folks from voting ten times each? For example, although it ain't a bad place, I find it difficult to believe that 8 out of 10 votes at this time are for the Alki Tavern. It very well might eventually win, but the demographics seem to be focused north. (I don't really care, I live in Tacoma.) Our R.A.B. (Righteous Alpine Brother) Hikerwa must be squealing with joy right now at the thought of those cheap and delicious burgers. With all due respect to Hikerwa, the gourmet fare at the Alki, and the many handsome biker gentlemen who frequent the place, I am nonetheless curious about how this new, fancy, computer machine voting works and if it is a fair way to obtain information suitable for making decisions. (or is it just another version of the loudest mouth wins?) Just askin'? - Dwayner

My name is Alpine J. And this is my buddy "rope". I say kick out Dwayner. He's a pompous, mean and a poseur. He must be voted away. sighed, Alpine J and "rope"

"Undiscovered even by the early Conquistadors, Machu Picchu remained HIDDEN FROM HUMAN KNOWLEDGE until 1911." ???? That could just be ignorant, careless publicity hype although it would be interesting to know if this is the speaker's own verbage or that of TNF. Dwayner happens to know a little bit about this subject, being the author of "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Lost Civilizations." (How's that for shameless self-promotion?!) In Chapter 22, I wrote the following: THE LOST CITY OF MACHU PICCHU In 1911, American explorer Hiram Bingham went in search of a lost city said to have been the refuge of the last Inca ruler after the Spanish conquered the capital of Cuzco. Local people told him of ancient ruins high up on a mountain. With a guide, Bingham made the arduous jungle climb out of a deep river canyon to the top of a ridge between two peaks. What greeted him was the spectacular remains of a royal Inca estate called Machu Picchu. The site was abandoned except for a few farmers living amid the ruins. A major expedition was launched to clear the site of vegetation and to map, record, and study the ruins. The dramatic beauty of its location and its superb Inca stone architecture have established Machu Picchu as among the most admired archaeological sites in the world. The estate was built by the Inca ruler, Pachacuti, who ruled from around A.D. 1438 to 1471, and was probably abandoned not long after the Spanish conquest. "Hidden from human knowledge", eh? - Professor Dwayner

Brother Timothy: Thanks for the illumination. I am now an informed voter. For those similarly ignorant, here be the explanation: plab adj., p-LAB 1) Something that is magical, and too mystical for explanation. "The site of freshies on my face is so P-Lab. Plabby- The act of being a plab-ass. P-labio, something that is just so fuggin plab you can't say anything else. "more plab for the stab" well, we'll leave that one open to the imagination." I guess words like "wow" accompanied by facial gestures of wonderment are now passé? How about "plabacious"? Or "Send the plabness!" - - Dwayner

Dude: You'd be better off if you'd been thinkin' of "escaping the sleeping bag and mother-in-law" ratings. Here's the answer to your quandry: you should have brought that mother-in-law with you to keep you warm in that crappy sleeping bag. Hotcha! And what are you doing buying a sleeping bag called "King Tut"? That guy's been dead for over 3,000 years! (He probably roasted to death in a sleeping bag called "Bill Clinton"). aloha, - Dwayner

Tried the poll...can't do it because I don't know what a "plab" is. Is he a "gaper"? No. - Dwayner

Ditto on Dwayner...he's a negative, whining couch potato who can't climb his way out of a wet paper bag. Boot him off the island. He's also a drunk!

I second the Dwayner nomination...he'll never be one of us.

Lets vote off Dwayner! According to some, he's an "old, bitter, pathetic "never been" desperately seeking acceptance.

Mr. Blight, he say:"Sorry, I didn't read your detailed trail of tears.Your comments suggest that you did, but if not, maybe you should. You'll learn more about me AND yourself."we'll still make fun of you at the cleanup."Be my guest! Let me get the fun started: Sounds like you need a little aloha in your life!ALOHA! aloha!- Don P.S. WHAT'S YOUR REAL NAME? Don't you think we should know? [ 04-08-2002: Message edited by: Dwayner ]

Hey Blight! Where'd you learn to be so mean? I doubt if you know me very well; apart from my students, I've regularly either climbed solo or with a small number of trusty pals over the last ten years. You don't have to like my opinions (about bolting, Index, the Mountaineers, etc.) but you lower yourself when you initiate such trash-talk about individuals. I've read all of your previous posts and you've been quite civil in the past. I've got a good idea who you are and the fact is, you don't know me very well and vice-versa. My fake internet name is "Dwayner" but my real name is Don Ryan, as you probably know. What's your real name, Blight, so we can know who the mean-talkin' guy is? To address your unkind comments: "Hey Dwanker,"It's "Dwayner" or "Don", "Mr. Blight", but if it helps your self-esteem, you can call me "Dwanker". "Don't bother coming to the Index Cleanup."Fine. Maybe I'll go out there with a couple of pals and be one of those two guys spending a half hour doing a little cleaning, as I suggested. If you find a lot of garbage to pick up out there, then I was wrong. "Nobody wants you there. Seriously, all of the climbers would just make fun of you. Actually, we will make fun of you even if you don't come."We really must run in very different circles. Most of the climbers and adults I associate with would never speak or act in such a way. "There will be climbers participating in the cleanup and your little fantasyland climbing stories won't fly."Just trying to entertain the masses and a lot of it is more real than you could possibly believe! And I get positive feedback for my funny stuff regularly. Sorry you don't like it! "Maybe you can convince some juvenile's at Spire Rock that you are a climber, but it ain't going to fly with the big boys."Actually, I haven't been a "regular" at Spire Rock in several years. I'm a busy guy and there are actually too many juveniles hanging out on top breaking beer bottles, peeing on the rock and such. Who are these big boys? I know many great climbers but I don't know where you draw the clique lines. "How does it feel to be an old, bitter, pathetic "never been"?I wouldn't know. Would you? "And what's funny is that you continue to desperately seek acceptance into a tong where you don't belong. When are you going to give it up? You're not fooling anyone." Don't know what you mean by "tong". (Do you mean "thong"? You're right, my doesn't fit anymore.) Sorry, mister, but I don't need your acceptance or really anyone else's other than my loving family and my close friends. I won't give that up. If you think I need to prove myself as a climber...that might have been the case 20 years ago back when climbing was the focus of my life (and employment), but I've moved on to more satisfying and meaningful things. I still deeply care about climbing (as you might tell from some of my posts), and I think I'm a much better climber in many ways than ever, but I could really care less if you or any other "anonymous" poster on this board thinks I'm a good climber or not. Your personal brand of negativity is bothersome, however. "As for your comments regarding the Mountaineers (or any climber that lacks proficiency), I think it hilarious that you regularly comment negatively about them considering it would be very difficult to find a Mountie "Basic Grad." that you could out climb (or out scramble). Give it up!"Again, you don't know me well enough (or at all) to make such comments. If it makes you feel better, you are free to believe all of that. Keep laughing. It's supposed to be healthy. I have some serious issues and encounters with the Mountaineers as do many others. They are trying hard but there are way too many of them and I strongly disagree with many of the ways they conduct themselves. You are mistaken if you think I resent "any climber that lacks proficiency". That's a very broad and erroneous statement. I train about a dozen a year myself to the best of my ability, and I, too, am always learning new things. I am more than happy to assist new climbers (Mountaineers or otherwise) should they want some suggestions. On the other hand, I do not care for the Mountaineer's factory nor the gym-trained instant sporty climber approach. You are welcome to disagree. "How's your one friend?" Actually, I am very blessed with the fact that I have more than one good friend, but even one good friend is better than ten flakey ones. I hope you have many good friends. I assume you're talking about "pope", because he's the guy I climb mostly with and we back each other up on this list alot. I haven't talked to him in a couple of days but I assume that he's fine. Good luck, "Blight". Sorry you don't like me! - Don

My alpine brother Erik, he say: "it was a shock to see the old bus removed...but i think it is a good thing...it was an eyesore and a waste fo space in a space limited parking lot...if index keeps getting more popular, i think we will have to limit the amount of seatlites there on any given day....being from tacoma i am exempt...." Dude! Art is relative. I happen to think that Vantage is an eyesore but am I gonna tear it down? If there ever is a need for extra parking at Index, it will be a sad day; it will probably mean that there will have been more bolted routes established to attract the sporty masses. They've already ruined enough places. Let them have their road cuts but no more of that nonsense at Index.

- quit "beatin' around the bush" about the trash at the beginner crags in the Icicle. I drove by their on Saturday and it was a genuine Mountaineer's fantasyland. I don't make a practice of false accusations, but if they weren't themselves making the mess, they should be pickin' up the area if they be so environmental as that big shot Mountaineer from the "Mountaineers" discussion seems to claim.

An Index clean-up? What's there to clean up? If you're looking to pick up garbage, maybe somebody could wade into the old quarry swamps and find something down there, or the occasional conspicuous "tat" sling way up on the walls. I say it's a 1/2 hour job for two funny characters drinkin' beer. If people want to volunteer for something, maybe they should concentrate on pulling nasty alien weeds at the Peshastin Pinnicles or the Icicle. (Although at Index, I noticed some sort of plank bridge construction laying down in the swamp..perhaps another example of someone's attempted "improvements"?) And if you insist on volunteering at Index, there's a couple of bolt ladders next to cracks that could be removed... yet we digress...we are here to mourn the bread truck. - Dwayner

Went to 11-worth with Fast Eddie on Saturday...stopped by Index on the way and was horrified to see that the stinky, rusting old hippy bread truck had been removed from the "parking lot". The truck was legendary. How many of you sat in there out of the rain and cooked your dinner when the roof was intact years ago...raise your hands...uh, that's what I thought, many of you "old-timers". And how many of you climbing Betty's and climbing Barney's lost your virginity in the back of that truck? Raise your hands...come on, don't be shy, put them up! uh huh, that's what I thought...most of you reading this. And how many of lit something on fire in that old truck just to be a rascal...a bunch of you, or threw some garbage in there when no one be looking, and how many of you crapped there or used it as a crapping decoy at one time or another? I'd would venture to say all or most of you. And then it disappeared...someone with no concern for history or rusty aesthetics has ended an era. One can only imagine the arrogance and self-righteousness behind such a foul deed! Here's a big beer to the old hippy bread truck, that played an important role in so many of our coming-of-age experiences and bodily functions. Here, here, I say, another is in order, , and I propose that the next pub club, wherever you bickering fools decide to have it, should be dedicated to this lost monument. (By the way, anyone know if they took it to the local dump? Maybe we can tow it back to it's "home".)Anybody got some memories they want to share while I grab another Mickey's? - Dwayner P.S. And somebody be alterin' the approach trail to the Lower Town Wall. Seems they don't like getting their little tootsies wet in the natural stone-lined creek path that has served us well for years. Acts like they thinks they being doing us a favor- could be an agent prepping the way for the Vantage overflow.

That stupid dog, he look fierce, but he ain't got the mind-control thing going on. OBEY THE ALPINE KITTY!

Several points: a) since when do we change the pub-club schedule based on Lambone's availability? A surprisingly goofy suggestion from the effortlessly cool Hero of Big 4. Count me out, kahuna! b) a venue debate, eh? I heard there was a big one a few weeks ago when I was in Europe. I recall back (a few months ago) when such a thing happened the first time (and I argued for fairness in alternating the place), I was called a big baby. ("fighting over where to drink beer? wah, wah, wah, etc.") My, how times have changed so quickly! c) Icegirl/Snow Lovely. You broke my heart when you didn't show up at the last Club Pub. I'm sure I wasn't the only one. Someone breaks into your car, and you break our hearts...pay it forward they say, eh? - Drunk Dwayner P.S. Spare some change, guvna?

Hey Groovy Guys, Groovy Gals: Just in case you haven't had "the experience" recently, take a good look! Check me out! I'm a cool cat!!! P.S. big mistake wasn't it! You must now obey the Alpine Kitty. Check your watch...where have you been the last half-hour?...you can't remember can you? Now check your pockets...where did that receipt for a couch dance at the Deja Vu come from...look at the date and time...it was 15 minutes ago. Smell your shirt...it reeks of stripper perfume...now go check the mileage in the car...you've been somewhere recently and the engine is still kinda warm...and there are hamburger wrappers and cat box litter on the floor on the passenger's side...face it: the Alpine Kitty took control of your life for half an hour and you got in your car, ordered some burgers from the Big Mac, made a lightning quick trip to "the Vu" for a little party on your lap, and then ran out to return to this very computer.You should be so lucky that you lost only thirty minutes...last week, the Alpine Kitty sent me on a mission that must have taken me half a day, including loads of alcohol, "chimichangas", and a fistful of phone numbers and business cards. When I finally snapped out of it, I was seated in front of the computer as I am now, with my pants on backwards, scratch marks on my back and a black eye. ....Beware the Alpine Kitty.Also, a bag full of my climbing gear was found 2 pitches up on City Park at Index. The Kitty is powerful!- Dwayner

As many of you probably know, the International Congress of Sport Climbers was recently held in Pollo del Mar, Spain. I have found a link with a dramatic excerpt from their opening ceremonies which is listed in the program as "La Parada de los Sport Ascendores", featuring some of the world's best sport-climbers. Check it out:Sport-Climbers On Parade! - Dwayner - And thanks to the "King 'o Freshies".

Brother Slide in another topic summed it up well: "Some people can't have more that a few beers without falling over in their chair The final count of people was about 17, so I would consider it a success." Beer, fun folks, and good times. - Dwayner

Hey groovy gals, groovy guys! Did I get your attention with my hip and funky spelling of the word "girls"? It's Tuesday so you can guess that yes, this is another desperate plea to help prevent this evening's Club Pub from being another sausage-swingin', kielbasa-danglin', Ball Park Frank-scratchin', Man-meat-fest! Last week, a noble attempt was made and we thank the ladies. This week, show us your combined might...I'm talking to you, JULES...and SNOW LOVELY...HOLLY CLIMBER...V!...EHMIC...ALLISON...DYNAMITE...HEIDI....INGRID...AND THE OTHERS (apologies if I missed a few names...I'm drunk.) See you there. The Spar is a fun place and it's just a block away from the water with scenic piers and gently crashing waves. The Spar2121 N 30th St, Tacoma, WA (253) 627-8215 - Dwayner

I've just got around to reading through this topic and it has brought up some interesting notions. I was especially impressed with my buddy pope's statement on the first page and I believe that it is worthy of repeating: "Having a little self-discipline in your culture can produce excellent results. Witness the origin of the world's finest automobiles, beers, and leather shorts. We live in the Wild West, where just about anybody can live freely, and I wouldn't have it any other way. We don't need rules; but we do need a little pride and self-discipline. Increasingly, people are attracted to our sport because of its sexy image. Instead of appreciating that mountaineering is supposed to offer many kinds of challenges in a wilderness setting, instead of appreciating that skill and experience (not just athleltic ability) are required for excellence, it seems that many climbers today have the attitude that they should climb the hardest routes and even establish new routes within six months of starting. Many are willing to take short cuts (hang dogging and "red pointing" at a certain grade (say, 5.12), then announcing, "I climb 5.12." What seems to be genuinely missing is a sense of style and a commitment to not littering the rock. What seems to be present is a sense that anybody and everybody should be able to purchase a drill, charge it up all night, then head out to Vantage to push the envelope, to define the cutting edge of mountaineering. Too often, the result is an insultingly over-bolted 5.9 route that could easily be TR'd."Amen, brother!- DwaynerP.S. And where are all of them people crapping out there? (Apart from the metallic feces to be found plastered on the rock in all directions.)

Ropegun up above say: "Most everyone in the climbing community in and around Seattle are pretty excited about all of the development at Sunshine Wall and the surrounding coulee that's been happing over the years. Brother Ropegun must live in some special sporto/gym "community" because a good many of the folks I know think Vantage is a travesty. - Dwayner

Sorry, Bro. Erik, about my recent new topic. just saw your post!The details have arrived!it will be at the spar in old town tacoma.......very easy to find http://www.the-spar.com/ And a fine choice, too. Beginning c. 7 PM?Be there!