Dwayner

I's seen a black helicopter with U.N. markings up there near Prussik Peak. It seems to me that they be interested in how many folk be on the South Face vs. the West Ridge. Probably something to do with the Kennedy assination, oil cartels or both. I hid behind a larch tree but they probably scanned my fingerprints and DNA from afar. Now I'm typing this late at night so's they wont's know!! Hard to hide from The Man!

"And do keep up your non-sport climbing tendencies, as DFA hates running into pricks at the crag." Excellent! No worries, mate! I'd hate to have to call His Lou-ness to rescue your miserable butt from the big 'ole mountains when you run out of drink mix, forget your fork, get frightened by a snafflehound striking the two-legged threat pose, rip your tights, etc. or any number of other dire emergencies!

The 'Bone ain't Petey Puget. I know this to be so. Nope, he ain't. Peter Puget ain't Allison either. I've seen her!!!! VaVaVaVOOOMMM!!!!!!

"I'll refrain from pissing in the wind this time." You don't pull on Petey Puget's cape, You don't pee in the wind, You don't pull, the iceaxe away from Dwayner, And you don't mess around with Big Lou doo-duh doo-duh doo-uh doot-doot-do-da

Some wild stuff being passed around here, like this one: Here's a bizarre quote from the 'bone: "I've taken my share of shit from the pigs." Where did you get that one? Did you find an old Abbie Hoffman book in the school library? Do make sure that you DON'T call "the pigs" next time some thug is mugging you, breaking into your love-shack, stealing your car or whatever. You wouldn't want any of their s*%t. I'd really like to see you live in our society without "the pigs"; you wouldn't last a week. And next time you see one of them drivin' around patrolin' your neighborhood, show them how you feel instead of pissin' on them on a climbing bulletin board: give them the finger and tell 'em to get lost. On a lighter note, Mr. Attitude's provocative solution to who's got the say: "Let's just whip out our dicks, and the one with the biggest is King of the Mountain!" Why I guess then that Big Lou is King of the Mountain, and if he abdicates, then you may address Dwayner as "your royal highness".

"After putting several weekends and a lot of work into figuring out how to hang on through 80 feet of at-your-limit sickness, it IS frustrating to have to sit there while someone takes twenty minutes to figure out the first move. Is the frustration that big of a deal? No. Sport climbing is frustrating as *@, and that's part of the fun; beating your head against the wall to solve improbable sequences and link them all together." So, if sport-climbing is frustrating and frustration is all part of the fun, why complain about having to wait? By that view, the additional frustration entailed in the uncertainty of waiting can only add to the "good times"! Sorry, mate, but as a trad-man, it's really hard for me to relate to several weekends involving "80 feet of at-your-limit sickness". Nothing I read so far changes my opinion and I'm surprised that the "Doctor" didn't enjoy the humorous sporty-stereotype.

P.P: ...and it ain't because I'm tired.

'bone-dawg: Flexilis sum, gluten es, me resilit, ad te haeret! Heard at the gym: "Quid fiat si hoc rudentem vellam?"

P.P. "Ouch those personal insults." Dude...I detect a pattern in your discourse. You start pissing people off when you make it personal. I don't comment on your personal climbing resumé, occupation, or whatever when I'm discussing issues. When you start doing that, however, you cross a line, and change the nature of the discourse. "Actually you and Pope have both indicated (several times) that you have never climbed a hard route by modern standards. I could go bother looking up the threads but since you know it to be true you also know I do know more than squat." If you think many 5.11's trad and a few thrashes at 5.12 trad are not hard by modern standards, then I guess we're a bunch of weak-kneed washed-up pussies. (BTW, I ain't climbing that hard now but pope probably be up for it.) If modern standards include sporty clip and hang techniques, count me out. I have more respect for a guy who can climb 5.7 smoothly from the ground up, place his own gear, and go on his way then some dude spending 3 weeks of his life trying to rehearse and wire a short bolted sport climb. I stand by my word...you don't know squat. So when you get personal, you will more than likely be speaking from ignorance and asking for a harsh rebuttal. "Dwayner! Please refrain from insulting me! I am a fragile poster." Another Pugetian theme: if your skin is thin, you must by your verbage assume others are much thicker. "Oh and did you mean perhaps logion?" No, I meant "logician". You are a pseudo-logician. I know you want to be my buddy so cool your jets and think before you type! - "Dwayner" P.S. Visne scire quod credam? Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere et luctationes omnes praestitutas esse!

I'm busy at the moment and don't have time to rephrase what I've already stated. If you don't understand it...some other time. P.P. you're back to your old, tired self. a) you don't know squat about what Dwayner has climbed, or can or cannot climb. b) you are to be recognized as a master pseudo-logian. c) you give me a dang headache. d) you think sport-doggin' and its accompanying luggage has improved climbing? I disagree. e) did I mention that you give me a headache? Sexy Coco.....I thought you went out to clip some choss? Your time might be better teaching P.P. a few of the latest Moondance steps.

"Doctor"..I apparently didn't make my point clear about the "sticky shoes". The point I was trying to make is that if you change the "rules" and, for example, allow unlimited rehersal, hanging off of gear, etc., then we are all ultimately 5.14 climbers if we choose to spend our lives that way. Yep, even your grandma has big number potential and it might take here a heck of a lot longer than that Sharma-feller, but with enough rehersal, she's crankin' hard! Similarly, the comment about the sticky shoes was meant to imply that you can theoretically make the shoes ever-more sticky and pretty soon that long featureless slab of 5.13 becomes a no-hands route. It's all relative. Change what's acceptable and the game changes radically. Get my point? I wear sticky shoes and I like them, but I also acknowledge that they allow me to climb things a lot harder than I was able to do with the less-sticky ones. Get my point? Sexy-Coco: "pope" is a climbing buddy of mine. We get along because we share similar views. He be in Yosemite right now with the goal of climbing the NW Face of Half-Dawg.

So Dwayner - what is you opinion of the mighty Godzilla? If Godzilla be 5.9, it's one of the harder ones. It has scared me on more than one occasion...the lieback spooked me once when gear fell out and on another occasion I was lost or runout at the very top and it made me nervous. I rescued a guy off of it once...had to throw him a rope from the top of City Park. Another time, I was standing on the City Park ledge and a wild-eyed terrified bugger on Godzilla lunged for my pack which was hanging off a hook or some such. I warned him that he was going to take a screamer if he grabbed the bag but he got up somehow and was shaking...his buddy couldn't follow him. I have respect for the giant Japanese radioactive water lizard.

"Just curious Dwayner...But have you ever gone sport climbing just once, before you ripped it apart? Not trying to pick a fight, I'm just curious that's all..." Yup. Tried it. It made me feel cheap and dirty. Really. The situation at Vantage is what really turned me off. I had climbed there before it was grid-bolted and now I find the place sad and violated. Same with parts of Smith Rock and elsewhere. The short learning curve of sport-climbing, too, attracts lots of people. I'm glad they're having a good time but I don't like being around the crowds...and some of them folks are dangerous because outside a very limited environment involving bolts, they don't know much about climbing. I don't care for the grid bolts, the crowds, nor the sporty-style of ascent, so I tend to avoid such scenes. Also, I still value my clean-climbing ideals which were in development when I started climbing in the '70's. Although sporty people can choose to rehearse moves repeatedly for days, hang off closely-spaced bolts to rest, with the stickiest of shoes, etc., I still have a hard time believing that such antics are equivalent in excellence to leading a trad climb from the bottom up (hopefully without falling) and placing most if not all of one's pro and removing it afterwards, leaving the rock intact for the next contenders. Just my opinion. Tried it, studied it, and found it distasteful. That's my story. - Dwayner

I'm w/ TimL here...its all good...why classify oneself as a trad or sport climber? No, my friend, some of us don't think "it's all good." Having weighed the choices, we choose are preferences. Nobody is stopping anybody from doing too much. Go be sporty if you choose...but respect the fact that others might think it's lame....go bouldering too! Who cares if Dwayner or other tradmeisters think it's goofy. We ain't keeping you from "sending" that sick 14b sloper-fest!

"Funny thing, I never hear of sport climbers complaining about gear climbers. It’s always gear climbers bitching and moaning about sport climbers. What gives?" What gives? The practice of sport-climbing seems to encourage the reckless placing of numerous bolts. Many trad climbers uphold clean climbing as an ideal. We think you should ideally take your gear with you when you leave. That debate is old, old, old...I'm sure you're familiar with it. "The only thing I hear from sport climbers as "trad" climbers pass by at the crags is chuckles: or laughter at the self righteous idiot in a helmet with all new gear and chaotic mess of slings draped over themselves like a medieval barbarian proclaiming some mantra about bolts this or that...If your so involved that your knocking people for being a sport or a trad climber and not focusing on you and your friends climbing maybe you should see a doctor." Dude! you just knocked trad climbers yourself! And you think the sporties are any better because they might choose not wear a helmet, wear pink spandex tights or their gear is smaller? Huh? "Climbing is supposed to be fun. Or just do something else like play in traffic!" Such a nice young man! [ 08-20-2002, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Dwayner ]

"It's frustrating when you can't lead your project because 20 people are waiting in line to toprope it." "I'M FRUSTRATED." boo-hoo! Too dang bad. Sport-climber, meet life. Life, meet sport-climber. NOTICE THE USE OF THE TERM: "YOUR PROJECT". "hey...you're on MY project. ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME MEME ME ME ME ME ME ME And it's really important to me so you'd better get out of the way!!! I'm sooooooooo frustrated! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME I'm going to clip those bolts, hang a bit, swear, comb my hair back, grunt, swear, clip another bolt and so forth (you can watch if you like) and it's really important to me so you'd better get out of the way!!! I'm sooooooooo frustrated! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME "can't we all just get along." - the immortal words of the philosopher-king, Rodney King. The answer is NO. It's against human nature, but we can tolerate each other which means wait your turn and quit trying to jump the queue! P.S. SK...I'm not targeting you in the above...just addressin' the general situation.

I've never heard of that "leader's rights" thing, but in my opinion, IT'S A LOAD OF CRAP!!!! FIRST COME, FIRST SERVE!!! If someone just really had to lead that particular climb, that day!! right now!! perhaps an appropriate procedure would be to ask politely how long the top-ropers intend to be there and if they say "all day", you're out of luck...move on to the next climb. Or ask if you can climb through....if they say "I'd rather you not", move on to your next objective. While teaching classes and guiding, I've run into this situation many times, especially with the Mountaineers who will commandeer prime practice areas for an entire day and festoon their top ropes everywhere. The solution is to get up earlier than the others or find another climb. No one, top-roper or otherwise, should feel obliged to move for anyone else, not even the Mountaineers! - Dwayner P.S. Is that the first time you've heard the word "festoon" used this week? It surprised even me.

It's at Lou Whittaker's Bunkhouse in Ashford. A shiny new RMI van will come by to pick you up at your door.

Pins in the clean crack be nasty, but where be the people complaining about the line of closely spaced bolts next to the crack on the route nearby known as Numbah 10? It goes clean on aid yet the sporty's don't like the commitment required to place gear on lead while free climbing. Brother Erik: resist the temptation to be a rock-cop. Grab the pins and consider it booty. You don't want to devolve into that guy who approached me 'n pope one day just because we had a hammer and "he didn't know us" and aggresively lectured us like naughty schoolboys (we had the hammer, on this particular route, for the purpose of tapping out (with a nut tool) heavily weighted and "welded" micro or other nuts placed during our clean aid ascent...a common practice) I saw a guy once completely nail Iron Horse. My reaction was that it was a lot easier to climb it clean and where the heck did he get all of them pitons? Ironically, I think the first pitch of Iron Horse goes free because of pin-scars, but we certainly don't require any more of that action if it goes clean. - Dwayner

It's in Tacoma. Be there.

Anybody seen the news item about Bigfoot being seen in the Tatoosh Range near Lane Peak? Check this out! Alpine Bigfoot - Dwayner [ 08-19-2002, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: Dwayner ]

Jimmy Yoder...a mini-Fred B. of sorts...has actively engaged in seeking out new climbing possibilities in the most obscure of places and has established hundreds of routes. If he said he did the Pickets Traverse in the 1960's, he was joking because I don't think he graduated from high school until about 1976. Jimmy got a well-developed sense of humor. For historical purposes, Spire Rock in Tacoma was dedicated in 1976. It was created with volunteer labor under the supervision of a guy named Wayne Cook who is rarely seen these days. Wayne recruited who ever was walking by, including myself, to lift large stones, pull on ropes or whatever. In fact, Spire Rock is where I first met Jimmy Yoder, the first NW climber I met when I moved up here for college/climbing. He usually arrived on some sort of motorcycle with a cute girl hanging on. First trip to Leavenworth was with JY in a mammoth run down Cadillac packed with an odd assortment of characters and requiring a couple of quarts of oil every hour or so. The guy is a northwest neo-pioneer and a real survivor...a smart-ass, some say, with a heart of gold. - Dwayner

I'm puttin' Mickey's aside for a week and trying out a new food group: And I'm gonna take a sixer with me to the Trask slide show and if them Hooter Girls want a sip, they're gonna have to beg.

Dwayner tried a little paragliding....went to paragliding school out of Ellensburg. As the simplest form of flight, it was attractive but I'm practically cured of the whole thing. Some observations: a) it is definitely a fair-weather endeavor. These fabric wings are not those of a jumbo-jet. They have a very limited range of conditions in which they can be safely flown; b) just because you're a climber doesn't mean you'll automatically enjoy this stuff. It scared the heck out of me while my non-climbing buddy (who is terrified on the easiest of practice crags) loved every minute of it; c) it can be really dangerous. One of my old guiding colleagues (Jeff Splitgerber) back in the day met his doom flying the wing. Myself, I once got sucked up into a thermal on a hot August day and then half of my wing collapsed sending me plummeting toward a hillside. I recovered in time but then got slammed into the ground from about 10 feet up. I felt like I had been beaten with a stick. The point...there is a lot to learn and it's really fun until something goes wrong (and there is a lot that can go wrong) so seek the best instruction available. People have done crazy things with the paraglider/parapente...like that wacky Frenchman who took off from the summit of Everest and was back in Base Camp perhaps 10 minutes later. Keep in mind, some of these summits are small and the conditions have to be just right (plus you gotta haul all of that flying crap up there with you, usually in the form of a large soft back pack with the wing, harness unit, etc....I used to think it would be cool to jump off of Liberty Bell and such, but basically you have one chance to do it right. You know why I drink all of them Mickey's??? Read Some of These! OY!

I see we're back to Romper Room again after a few months of relief. Lambone...I liked you better when you were groveling, thoughtful and kind of nice...probably so did a lot of other people. You turned a miserable defeat into a overwhelming outpour of sympathy...yep, you even had me going there for awhile. You should have rode that wave, pal...cuz it now seems like the 'ol miserable Bone is back...unteachable (this bolt "debate" is ancient), unoriginal (you can't even come up with your own picture of a kid puking - no this isn't an invitation..you had your chance) and barking up the wrong tree (arguing with Dwayner and his pals...but we can arrange another "ignore the Bone boycott if you like). So have a hap...hap....happy day.