Peter_Puget

I'll second the recomend for Spiderman.

Here are few that come to mind: Vertigo - EldoradoFire & Ice - EldoradoOld Gray Mare - CastleApron Jan - MidnightSometimes a Great Notion - MidnightPressure Drop - IndexThe Line - Lovers LeapWolf Crack - Donner SummitBlown Out - BeaconKone head - Quin KoneheadNE Buttress CathedralPinky Paralysis - Yosemite

The one drawback to Pumpline is the veggies growing out of the bottom 3/4ths of the route. On thing about the crux is that the jams are bomber, not very technical, and yet it is still hard. Whenever I have done it I think "Heck I must be screwing up I should be able to just pull thru and grab the top!" And instead I am having to moan and groan to pull up.

Here is something interesting: (Particularly about our here Lomborg) March 12, 2002 One Year AfterNow it’s Europe that’s getting cold feet about the Kyoto accords. By Michael StandaertBRUSSELS - Exactly one year ago, on March 13, 2001, President Bush informed four senators that he would not attempt to ratify the Kyoto protocol on climate change.Under the treaty, industrialized nations would have to cut emissions of carbon dioxide, the main greenhouse gas, by an average of five percent from 1990 levels by 2012. Signers would have to implement measures to reduce greenhouse emissions (a different amount according to the output of each country) by 2005, with further reductions due each year until 2012. Eighty-four countries, including the U.S., had signed the protocol in 1997, and 46 countries had either ratified or moved to accession agreements by December 2001.Bush's reversal prompted noises of outrage, shock, and regret around the globe. Europe was particularly aggrieved, declaring that Bush's decision laid bare his administration's unilateralist tendencies. But a year later, the complaints have been largely muted. For all the outrage of a year ago, Europe has offered little more than lip service on Kyoto since then, aimed mainly at mollifying Green and Socialist voters.On March 4, the European Commission adopted the decision to ratify Kyoto. The lackluster European Parliament added its vocal, though basically only symbolic, support in early February. This is all well and good and makes Europe look "progressive," but most of the bluster has been just that. Little of substance has been done on a Europe-wide level, and even if the European Union ratifies, implementation will be a murky task. Only five EU member states-Portugal, Spain, Luxembourg, Denmark, and France-have ratified the protocol, and none have officially sent their letters of commitment to the United Nations, hoping they will ratify in force at a later date. According to U.N. documents, no EU countries are in accession agreements. Environmentalists are hoping on a Europe-wide remit to agree on joint ratification during the March environmental council meetings, which would give the EU a push of public sentiment as it goes into the meetings of the World Summit on Sustainable Development in Johannesburg in late August. Still, all agreements on the EU level to ratify the protocol would have to go through the legislatures of each state, which is not a speedy task.Meanwhile, because of the European Commission's rotating six-month presidency, there is not much continuity in Europe's leadership. Belgium held the presidency up until January 1, when Spain stepped in to take over. Spain is interested mainly in issues of EU enlargement and the war on terrorism; there has been little talk about the environment. Between the Commission meeting in June and the Johannesburg summit in August, the presidency will pass to Denmark, which moved dramatically to the right in last fall's elections.Perhaps most important are the jitters behind the scenes in Europe's governments about just how much implementing CO2 emissions trading schemes would cost. Several states are divided about whether to make the trading schemes mandatory or voluntary for businesses during the three-year lead-in period starting in 2005. (Mandatory schemes of implementation were one of the chief problems U.S. negotiators had with the protocol.) According to the Belgian environment minister, Magda Aelvoet, there is "a blocking minority" able to hold up mandatory implementation, including powerhouses Britain and Germany. Germany and the UK saw their CO2 emission rise for the second year in a row last year, mainly from the continued reliance on coal-fired power plants. And they continue to build more.Even smaller countries that have long been pro-Green are getting cold feet. In January, Holland was warned by its bureau for economic policy that the emissions trading scheme would be too expensive. Denmark wants to redefine its target emissions cuts, which had been set abnormally high because a harsh winter had rendered the 1990 base-year emissions measuring-stick unusually high. (Denmark also appointed Skeptical Environmentalist author Bjørn Lomborg an environmental economic advisor in late February, causing shock in many Green groups there.)Japan, Canada, and Australia seem ready to stick with the U.S. position, though most European environmentalists aren't ready to believe this. If the EU goes into Johannesburg without ratifying a Europe-wide agreement, the effect-in the words of the World Wildlife Fund's Stefan Singer-would be "disastrous" for the protocols. Most other world support, it seems, would shift to more voluntary strategies. And to become officially binding in international law toward implementation, 55 countries that account for 55% of emissions would have to ratify.Since its formulation, observers have accused the Kyoto protocol of being a paper tiger. Whether that tiger is endangered or extinct will likely depend on the flexibility and strength of the European Union.

W - Substitute "sport climbing" for popular culture and the usual assortment of "tradition police" for the "traditionalist/highbrows" and the essay is really scary. BTW I loved the part about the reprobate Hobbitt fans in Khazakstan!

Heres a good link on commercialism: http://www.reason.com/0203/fe.cf.in.shtml

Surrealistic Pillar Direct @ Lover's Leap. Split Pillar is out because it's merely thuggish liebacking

Sold for a "Friend of a Friend"!

Any bids on the original vinyl Duck Stab EP? I need to make room for more Dereck Bailey discs! [ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

If the weather really is bad, ask for directions to the artificial hwy routes in Palm Springs. They have some really long traverses and some "mirror" routes where your start in the middle and traverse right (or left) and then you start again and traverse the opposite direction. It is funny how different sides find the same move more difficult than the other. Anyway if the weather is really bad it's a fun way to spend and couple of hours.

Now just where is the proof those are man made jugs!

Left or Right Wing it shouldn’t matter. The ebb and the flow of the business cycle are not shocking new developments. A prudent government will/would have prepared for such circumstances. The sad fact is that there are strong incentives for the government not to prepare for them. Even more sadly, most of these incentives operate against the ostensible mission of government and work to the advantage of the powers that be. Look at the Parks Dept’s website and see how much money is expected to be saved by these closures? Then see how much thought has been given to outsourcing such things such as park maintenance. This small change has the potential to save lots of $$, yet it has never been seriously examined. Given the option of closing parks I think it should have been given serious thought. Currently Bellevue Parks Department outsources some services and I think all the Provincial Parks in BC do as well. Dru - is this true and how has it been working?

I agree with Pope that EBGBs is a good climb; however, I can barely remember the first moves but certainly remember the top. Like many JT routes the unique texture of the rock takes getting dialed into and the top, while not a death runout by any means, is a bit nervey. It is fairly steep friction climbing. The start is more of a bouldering traverse. A good test before this would be to try Grain Surgery first. GS is easier, has good climbing and if you find its finish to be at all intimidating the post crux section of EBGS (85% of the route) would be far more so.

Hey Cavey and I met (sort of) and I never have been to a Pub Club - our secret is climbing!

Quality. It is not a bad climb but not a zillion stars. Its diagonal nature does make it a long pitch by JT standards.

LOL Actually I rarely climb sport routes, but that has more to do with not really liking most WA sport areas than any dislike of bolts. I think someone mentioned Illusion Dweller. That climb is unbelievably overrated! BUT it can often be climbable on those cold windy days when everything else is gettign blasted. So my advice would to safe it for one of those days. A bit harder yet a very good pitch is the first pitch of Desert Song. It is just to the left of Illusion Dweller. It is 10c/d I think. [ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

I know it's trad. I was suggesting it probably seemed harder than 10a because I am usually considered a bolt pulling wussy on this site. Making a little joke! Actually without any joking around it is harder than 10a.

Damn! We must be getting old. Now I'll even venture an opinion which was that the Woo Li is somewhat burly for for a 10a. My mind seems to remember it at 10d. But I am a bolt pulling wussy. Both of the routes are very good. Definately much better than the average scruffy JT route.

Its been a few years ( my mind might be going) but one of the following climbs I think is at the grotto and the other near it. Black President and Dance of the Woo Li Masters are very good climbs.

quote: Originally posted by erik: uh oh......cleester is off the meds again...... Watch out Erik! Appearently the word "Meds" is not considered sarcasm but irresponsible mud slinging! You might suffer a series of stinging insults.

One important thing nobody emphasizes is that in good weather Mt. Rainier is an awesome place to be! That is true without regard to whether you are standing at Paradise, walking the Wonderland, turning back on an unsuccessful climb or enjoying the view from the summit. As a climbing objective Rainier means nothing too me, but as a cool place to hike around and see it is amazing! A course with lots of time on the mountain and a summit attempt, the class could be the trip of a lifetime whether or not you ever climb again. If you feel a guided situation works for you I say go for it! One note: As others have noted the RMI courses are oriented towards glacier travel and not other climbing related skills. (ie rock climbing) I note that you have been somewhat vague as to your goals.

Scottp - ???? Bug - You are right.

Quote from Scottp: “I fail to see how anyone can have quicker access to an area when they can go no further on a closed road than anybody else. Distance driving to where you park is irrelevant.” Scottp simply imagine this two: people one at point A the other at point B. One is 35 miles from a trailhead. The other 3 hours. Now further assume their goal destination (point C) is a 5 mile hike from the trailhead. Now each person at his respective starting point begins their journey towards point C. I will not waste my time further specifying the details of how they journey, I am sure we know who will arrive first. FW – Now see what you started! Actually, Pope has a history of even starting threads slamming me. One entitled Fragile Poster was a hoot. I tried to paste a link but although I found it via search I could not actually pull it up. BTW by searching on fragile poster you will find two hits the original thread and a second called something like Fruitcake Recipe for Xmas Climbers. Pope did throw in a wonderful slam on me in that thread. Check it out! I am sure the context of that post will enlighten you to the Pope. Pope – Hugs! We do need to go on that climbing trip! Quote from Pope: Peter, surely you believe that Retro would like to see untrampled meadows whether he's climbing in the Stuart Range on the weekend or whether he's visiting the Olympics on a long weekend. Why would you think we're stupid enough to believe otherwise? Of course he wants to see that. I would venture to say that virtually all cc.comers would prefer an “untrampled” meadow versus a trampled one. . Since I never suggested otherwise I am wondering why you wrote that? That, however, is not the issue; the issue is how competitive desires are managed vis-a-vis a scare resource. Another quote from Pope: Another classic Peterism is to remind us that those who favor rock without bolts and meadows without criss-cross trails are motivated only by a sense of aesthetics, and that aesthetics are always subjective. Hence, according to Peter, the position is somehow "logically flawed". Now now Pope. I have said that to “favor rock without bolts and meadows without criss-cross trails” is a value judgement not an argument. Those interested I would say go back and search our arguments. Dan’s Arch in December maybe would be a good starting point. Further research into Popes posts would show that he has repeatedly ridiculed those who hold different values from himself. Again, the trick is not in the judgements, but in managing equally valid yet often mutually exclusive goals with a scare resource. Popes strategy is to ridicule and belittle all those who have different values than himself.

Scottp – No redirection here. Retro clearly did not answer my points and responded by ridiculous hyperbole and then called a cocksucker. These classy and erudite responses received the responses they deserved. I am assuming your post was sincere and not and attempt at being a smart ass or the result of a mordant personality. To restate via direct quotes from my original post: 1. His main motivation seems to reduce “others” ability to easily access an area that he has quick and easy access to. [True I stand by this.] 2. If each choice is always analyzed by how it impacts me directly and in isolation, we will all wake up someday in some place we’d never imagined. Then when we say “how did we get here” it’ll too late. [i stand by this too.] As long as climbers keep viewing access issues as Retro does (i.e. in isolation and with a selfish “how does it affect me” attitude) climbers will be screwed by the system or at best end up with something far less than they could have had.

I was considering laser surgery a few years ago. I was at a party with someone who worked in a eye surgery center at a hospital I asked him about laser surgery and he was generally positive about it. The I asked how many Drs. has he seen have it. He answered a bunch. I then asked how many ophthalmologits. He said zero. I thought epiphany.