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How true. But here's another MisterE comment: That statement is similarly hollow. Blind acceptance of change is no better than knee-jerk opposition to change. Those who voice opposition to sport climbing on this website make every attempt to convey what they see as specific problems with this approach to rock climbing. The proponents generally reply with the assertion that our opposition is founded psychologically in a resistance to anything new and different. Inevitably, somebody parrots the cliché about how adding front points to crampons was once seen as "cheating" and opposed by "traditionalists", suggesting that: (1) sport climbing is no more harmful than putting two extra holes in the ice and (2) opposition to sport climbing is similarly ridiculous and motivated by a fear of ANYTHING new. Actually, sport climbing isn't that new when compared to the number of decades that Americans have been pursuing rock climbing per se. In fact, when I got interested in climbing in the mid 1980's, sport climbing was already available to anybody who wanted to drive down to Bend. I didn't have any traditions to protect in my approach to climbing...I was just starting out. I read some magazine editorials and interviews and talked to some folks in both camps, and then I made up my mind. What would be iteresting would be your reaction if the future of rock climbing changes to a more ethically pure approach, with sport climbing no longer viewed as acceptable. How would you, Mr. "E", react to such change? Would you whole-heartedly embrace it, as a consequence of its trendiness? Mr. Rylan More, you probably have the wrong person in mind. I went down to Smith a handful of times to check it out, to see what all of the fuss was about, but I probably haven't been there in 14 years. Yes, I clipped up a few routes (even flashed an 11d with a bowline on a coil for a harness), but I soon decided Smith Rock and sport climbing weren't where it's at. Call me a hypocrite if you wish, but I'm sure if I'd never tried sport climbing, then you'd insist that I don't have any basis for my opposition to it. Also, Raindawg is correct. I’m not promoting the introduction of via ferrata to the Cascades. Sorry you misunderstood my intent.

"On Saturday December 9th, Backcountry Gear will be hosting long-time Smith local Mike Volk's video presentation of his documentary "Smith Rock 1986: The Birth of U.S. Sport Climbing." Witness the explosion of Sport Climbing at Smith Rock in the mid 1980s." What's the occasion? A celebration of the castration of America's proud rock climbing traditions? What's being documented? The history of our slide down the slippery slope to climbing without courage? The abandon of the "leave no trace" ethic in favor of manufactured bolt trails? The narcissism of pretending to climb grades that you can't really handle without an obnoxious, rap-placed bolt every six feet? Bad hair styles, lycra and the invitation of multitudes of gumbies who would rather alter the vertical environment than seek a true adventure? Join me in missing this one.

Wasn't he 2 for 3? But the tackle and forced turnover were stupendous. I can't believe they have a winning record when you watch that offense and when you consider all of the injuries. Now they're without a fullback (they have no back-up). St. Louis and Frisco lost today so with any luck we'll be back in post-season play. Winning in Denver was a big deal.

Real men appreciate football. But you're welcome to hijack this thread and talk about bowline knots or Gri-Gri belays.

link Coco's girl is increasing her cross section.

A couple of relevant quotes from my "guitar hero", Frank Zappa: Also, from his keynote address to the 1984 American Society of University Composers: Why does today's music seem to be performed by talentless and anonymous artists? Because today's audience demands nothing more.

Can't believe this didn't come to mind earlier: Alley-Oop Chimney at Peshastin. Go climb it, you'll see what I mean.

Oregon lost to Arizona (laughs) and WSU! Anyway, enjoy the "success" of Oregon because I think UW is turning the corner to PAC-10 domination, like the old days when playing Oregon/Oregon State had the feel of a scrimmage with some junior college.

Bow Down to Washington, Bow Down to Washington. Mighty are the men who wear the Purple and the Gold, Joyfully we welcome them within the Victor's fold. We will carve our name in the Hall of Fame, To preserve the memory of our Devotion. Chorus So, heaven help the foes of Washington, They're trembling at the feet of mighty Washington. Our boys are there with bells, Their fighting blood excells, It's harder to push them over the lines than pass the Dardanelles. So Victory's the cry of Washington Our leather lungs together with a Rah! Rah! Rah! And o'er the land, the loyal band** Will sing the glory of Washington forever!

Climb now, spray later (I think you've got the sequence bass-ackwards). Anyway, regarding the country music lyrics (lost my job, lost my home, lost my dog, lost my girl, etc.): you still have your life, but if you carry out your plans, this could change. What girl, job, dog, etc., is worth your life? The average guy will experience many jobs, many homes......and many bitches. One day, all of this will come together for you and you'll be glad you didn't expire in some dumb-ass storm on some dumb-ass mountain. Life is a shit sandwich. Eat it or starve.

In that case I will: (1) Appear for a photo-op in a full-body pink lycra action jump suit. (2) Belay OffWhitey with a Gri-Gri. (3) Satisfy Dru's girl (I realize I'm making a gender assumption) with some bon-a-fide (i.e. 'merican) Liebewurst.

I'll come check out your crag under one condition. If I can pull the moves without the plastic holds, you will remove them.

I've seen enough. Let's trade Hasselback and Alexander and bring in some offensive-line talent. I think we could get it done without those guys.

Check out what was lounging on the sunny side of my place Saturday. I'd never seen one in my neighborhood.

Thanks for respecting the stone. BTW, is that the cliff where you bolted on some plastic holds in a display of your unique ability to allow for nuance in climbing ethics?

How about the first crux on Iron Horse? I think it's supposed to be 5.11d and that isn't moderate by my standards. But there is a way to do that move that feels like 5.10b/c. From a right hand undercling, just reach up and stick your middle bird finger in that hole. Feels unlikely until you step up left and then stem off the right foot and right palm. Stand up and grab the bucket. Kinderspiel. The second crux is a shade harder.

Why do you want one of those darn things?

"...Clean Crack, I jumped on that again this past summer ..." Is that open again?

Now you've got a woman as your role model.

How many people really think ROTC is as hard as the grade implies? In reality, it is an amazing climb, but to me it never felt that hard. I'd call it 3 or 4 grades lower. Agreed, extremely "soft" for the grade (but still a great pitch!) There's no move harder than 10+ and if you take a rest in the middle of the pitch then that is what you climbed, a 10+. Most of the folks I've heard poo poo ROTC revealed that they did it with one hang. Many experienced crack climbers I've talked to call it 5.11c (like I remember Wallstein writing as much). I thought it was more difficult than Japanese Gardens. The year I first tried it I had flashed every 5.11 I attempted but on ROTC I couldn't squirm up the final squeez bulge (until I dispensed with a slippery wind breaker). Two years later I nailed it first try but it felt even harder. Think of any number of local popular 5.11- pitches such as Thin Fingers, Clean Crack, 1st pitch of Liberty Crack, Hot Cherry Bendover. ROTC is harder than any of these. In fact, ROTC is like having several Hot Cherry Bendover pitches stacked consecutively and tilted steeper. Hot Cherry has a reputation for spitting off "5.11 climbers".

"Even hard crack climbing has less artistry than modern face climbing (ever see a crack crux get climbed 7 different ways? Like on a modern bouldering route or sport route?)" Sport climbing is to tradtional rock climbing as is to

Nude Couple's Feud Ends at Waffle House By Associated Press Fri Nov 3, 6:47 PM NASHVILLE, Tenn. - No shirt, no service? What about no clothes at all? A couple that began squabbling in a motel room Friday morning carried their dispute over to an adjacent Waffle House diner in the nude, police said. A woman, who was not identified, told officers she was staying in a room with Larry Boyd when he took a hit of cocaine, starting trashing their room and choking her. She ran in the buff to the 24-hour diner off Interstate 40 west of downtown Nashville and locked herself in the bathroom. Boyd, also naked, followed her into the restaurant and then fled in a car. He was arrested _ still naked _ after a short chase by police and was charged with driving under the influence, felony evading arrest and other charges.

Crack climbs: Al Givler's Crack, Damnation, ROTC, Caboose, Easter Overhang, Yorkshire Gripper, Brass Balls Bolt-protected climbs: Timson's Face, White Lightning, Bomb Shelter Sport "climbing":

BRAVO! CC.com hasn't been this entertaining in years!

Good for you. You never know what you'll get until you go check it out. I can't tell you how many times I've slopped around in the snow only to encounter total crap. But when you hit good winter climbing, there's nothing quite as rewarding. I'll never forget my first trip to Chair in winter. We were intending to climb the N Face but as we got close it became apparent that wet snow had frozen rock solid. No rain crust, no powder snow over rock, just perfect, hard snow. So we did two or three pitches up the E Face on FANTASTIC plastic snow, where every move offered a solid "thunk" on the first swing. It felt like 5.3 on front points. Then we crossed over and finished on the upper NE face where a 10' vertical ice curtain provided entertaining climbing (we belayed off of screws in solid blue ice). I've never found such favorable conditions since.