goatboy

Hmm, maybe he did . . . he lead it on bolts without placing any trad gear -- so if you remember supplementing the bolts with gear, then it sounds to me like he DID miss a gear placement. Having a good piece nearby would have certainly minimized the pucker factor on that pitch . . .

Okay, I'm just curious what sort of conversation this will generate. You know how some routes suck, and you'd never do them again? And you know how some routes are okay, but you'd still not do them again? Well, what are some routes that you folks have done which you'd like to repeat or which you tend to repeat regularly? I'm most interested in ALPINE routes, though whatever sort of routes you'd like to mention are interesting to me as well. Personally, I've done Outer Space about 4 times . . . and Monkey Face Pioneer Route a few times . . . and The Beckey Route on Liberty Bell about 5 times, and the South Arete on South Early Winter Spire about 4 times . . . . just because they're quality routes and fun and very approachable. Seems like I tend to do them when there's out-of-town folks visiting and I want to just go fire a quality route that I know they'll really enjoy. Anyone else?

Figures on a Landscape: Stellar climb, but a pretty serious lead, in my view. I followed it in November, and recall that the crux move on pitch 1 comes about 20 feet above the first bolt, with a heinous pendulum and possible groundfall. The climb starts on a ledge and goes far right to the first bolt. The crux is getting past a dike system to the 2nd bolt on very thin holds. At this point, you've clipped a single bolt and traversed up and right about 20 feet over a precipice -- so the fall would be GRIM. If you bungle the sequence there, you're way committed and in a bad way. I thought it was very hard for the rating, even to follow. I am not a great climber, but not a bad one, and I felt that it was hard compared to other 5.10's in the Park. Illusion Dweller: Good climb, cruxy off the ground and at the very top. Popular. I was so pumped by the time I got to the top that I ended up aiding the last move after multiple whippers onto bomber gear. Maybe another day . . .

Breaking into 5.10? I'm not sure I'd second the recommendation for Bird on a Wire, as it is a multipitch climb with a hard-to-protect crux section -- maybe not the best one to break into 5.10 with. Bird of FIRE, on the other hand, is an outstanding 10A crack, mostly 5.9, with a 10A crux at the top with good gear. The start is bouldery and committing before you get gear, however. Hobbit Roof is a really fun 10B roof that is short -- thus the name -- and well protected at the crux. The bolted slab below the roof is 10d, but you can avoid it altogether by walking around it. The Exorcist is rated 10A but is really a bit harder because it's so polished -- but is super-well protected until the easy section at the top. I second all of "W"'s route selections. Note: they've moved the road through the park to the other side of intersection rock -- so things look a bit different now. Also, for a HARD 5.7, locate "Double Cross" on the Old Woman formation and have a go. Just protect well before getting out off the ledge onto the crack -- many visitors underestimate this section, leading locals to refer to this climb as "Pumpkinhead." Have fun! goatboy

Wow that's sick! When was this photo taken? We were there about a month ago, I think.

Last time I was at Smith, there was a fellow who used a stick clip for the first bolt, then climbed up to it, clipped into it, untied from the rope, lowered the end of the rope down, pulled up his stick clip (which extended to about 16 feet or more), clipped the NEXT bolt, then bat-manned up that rope and free climbed from there. That's ONE way to do it. I suppose.

My mistake. Bunny Flat it is. Hafta learn to read them damn topos proper, someday! Steve

On the lighter side: How about the old "Open a wine bottle with a small stopper" trick? Push the cork into the wine bottle, then slip a small size stopper down into the bottle and hook the cork from beneath, then pull the cork up and out with the stopper. Or use a biner to open a beer. Another good one is to put beer into one of the small streams crossing the snow creek trail as you hike up to the wall, then get your beers on the way out, ice cold!!! So good.

Well, as Viktor said, Leavenworth was glorious this past weekend -- Saturday was warm and blue, wind-free, and we climbed sun-warmed rock (after a snowy approach) on Castle Rock all day until the sun went down. Then on Sunday, it was shirt-free climbing in the sun on Duty Dome all day. So good! Thanks for the encouragement to make the long drive, Viktor. Steve

I have not climbed the route on Cedar Creek Wall Burdo mentions in his guide, though I agree with you that there is some odd calibration between different ratings in that book (I have climbed some other things in the Cedar Creek area and have found widely varying rock quality -- actually, some of the snow couloirs and scrambles are more enjoyable up there, for this reason). On the topic of varying ratings, for example, the 5.7's in the alpine setting that he mentions (such as "Archer") are rather stiff and exciting for the rating, while the 5.10's at Fun Rock (in Mazama) are rather light and easy for a 5.10. Whatever. If you do the Cedar Creek Wall, post a TR and let us know how it is! Good luck. goatboy

Cedar Creek wall is in a very wild, cool part of the range. However, the rock quality is not up to some of the other nearby formations. There are often backpackers camping in the Cedar Creek basin as well. I would recommend "Archer" on Black Horse Point (also in Burdo's guide) over Cedar Creek for the following reasons: The coolest things about this climb are the views, the position of the peak, the solitude in an otherwise crowded corner of the range, the sense of exploration, and most of all, the geology. Views: Great looks at Silverstar and the Wine Spires, and the Liberty bell/Early Winters massif. Position: Unusual perspective on the wine spires. Solitude: Saw no one at all up there over a weekend, which I think is pretty common. Exploration: When we climbed the route, there was no evidence (other than the guidebook description) that it had ever been climbed by anyone. Unusual for WA pass. Geology: You climb a pretty steep (40+ degrees, I'd say) couloir (steep, hard consolidated snow -- we roped up in the couloir and belayed, placing rock pro in the walls on the right side) to get to a very cool stone arch, which you pass under, then walk across to access the first pitch. Very memorable. The climb would be even better with more traffic for the occasional loose section and the cracks full of larch/pine needles. Snow in the couloir is vastly preferable to loose rock, so I reccommend a June ascent after the rock is dry but before the couloir melts out. The approach described in Burdo's book is, by the way, far from what he experienced. Burdo describes "hiking through open forest" or some such implication of an easy hike. It was a lot of bushwhacking and occasional 4th class rock steps, at least the way we went in (and out).

hey folks, I may be down in california in mid-march and am wondering if any of you have climbed Casaval Ridge on Shasta and if so, would you consider a one-day car-to-car climb as reasonable for you given the terrain? Proactive anti-spray disclaimer: I know that you can't say whether or not it's reasonable for ME -- but if several of you think that it would be do-able for you, it may help me make my own self-assessment. I do know that the parking lot is at 8,000 feet or so, and the summit is over 14,000 -- so that's a long day. I'm also curious if the road to the parking lot is normally open in mid-march? Thanks in advance for any info, folks. Steve

1 - A 2 - D 3 - C 4 - C 5 - A 6 - A 7 - A/D

Sounds like a winner! Thanks for the update. I will be there soon. goat-boy in the wheat

Wondering if any of the south-facing rock in Leavenworth is worth climbing these days? Specifically, I'm curious about the south side of Castle Rock, and/or any of the roadside stuff on icicle creek below the road closure. It's a 4 hour drive for me, that's why I ask rather than going to look for myself. Thanks in advance for any reports. Steve [ 02-26-2002: Message edited by: goatboy ]

Along the lines of this same topic ... I've suffered from what I diagnose as a sciatic nerve problem for over a year now. I have numbness and aching and tingling in my right leg and right butt cheek. I tried exercises as prescribed by a PT but gave up after a about 6 weeks or so when I had no appreciable improvement. Was I too fast to quit? Was it reasonable to expect improvement within 6 weeks? My girlfriend (who is a surgeon) recommended that I NOT do anything like chiropractic treatment, but I didn't know what else to try. What about accupuncture? I'm clueless. Maybe Courtenay or another knowledgeable person has some experience with this or advice? Thanks, Steve

Climbed Pretty Nuts and Riverview last spring, in March -- still fat then, so probably good now. Riverview was better, I thought. Did see some weird horizontal fractures, like little bergschrunds in the ice, up high. Scary. Watch out for trains on the approach to Riverview -- walking along the tracks, be wary of places to duck into if trains come!!!! No shit! I hear that Essondale Right is also a good climb. Good luck, Steve

Found a nice grivel ice ax on the traverse from Boston to Sahale, fairly close to Boston Peak ... it was barely concealed beneath the fresh snow. Nice ax!!!!!!! If it's yours, forget about it.

Anyone been up to Gibraltar Wall in the last week or two? If so, how were ice conditions up there? Thanks in advance! Steve

Sounds grim. I've barely sprinted ahead of some large groups of them on the SEWS. They were nice, but awfully slow. I assume that you mean the S Arete route for this incident report?

Thanks for the private message. Copper Creek is good when it's in -- I've been there with class III rapids flowing down the center of the falls, between barely climb-able ice on either side. But it is a lot closer, and with no border crossing concerns. What is Wizard's Lair? Where is it? Why is it?

As for parking: Drive to the end of the road and park at the gate. Just don't block other people in. Lots of folks in the methow valley do use snowmobiles to access climbing and skiing in the winter months. Of course, skiing in with overnight gear and camping up there would almost guarantee some measure of solitude . . . cold solitude!.

1) The "Rapple Grapple" route on Liberty Bell -- two pitches of steep 5.7 cracks which join beckey route higher up by the friction slab. Good alternative to crowded beckey route. 2) Cave route on Concord Tower as alternative to North Face route. Cool route which passes through a large cave to emerge on the west face for a pitch . 3) Direct Start on Outer Space -- adds more pitches and more challenge.

To add to Richard's points: True, many guides are AMGA certified, whereas only some OB/NOLS folks have that particular certification. One big difference between "guided" courses and OB/NOLS type coursesis that they can be very different in length, thus the curriculum can be different -- guided courses are often only a week long, typically, whereas OB/NOLS courses can be as short as a week or as long as three months. In other words, one might expect to learn a much deeper, wider curriculum over three weeks than over one. That's a lot of granola! The problem with these OB type courses, of course, is the cost -- but unlike any guide service I've ever heard of, OB and NOLS both offer scholarship opportunities and other types of financial aid. They do so because they are non-profit organizations. By the way, smearing your shit on a rock is no longer taught or widely accepted as effective Leave No Trace waste disposal technique. Maybe you should take a NOLS or OB course, Richard, to update your understanding of what the schools teach?

There is a difference between guiding and instruction. Although some of the better guides do attempt to instruct their clients, for the most part, guiding is about managing people in the mountains and helping them to summit safely, while schools like Outward Bound or NOLS are more about instructing people to be self-reliant without necessarily being obligated to summit anything. The benefit of going with a guide can be a small guide-to-client ratio, whereas at OB or NOLS you're usually part of a group of 8-10 students. However, at OB or NOLS, you'll learn a whole lot more about climbing. Check out the OB website at www.pcobs.org -- they offer rock climbing courses, mountaineering courses, and other courses as well. Good luck! And if it were my kid, I'd want him to go with certified instructors who have medical training, self-rescue skills, and training in teaching skills -- and probably not someone I met through a website.