Lowering off sport anchors

[Hummerchine]

 

You see one of these? Clip it and lower off! That's the whole point of it being there! Me and my friends are constantly shocked to see climbers dicking around placing their own quickdraws and cordelettes...oftentimes leaving it up to an inexperienced second to figure out how to re-rig this mess. Once the steel carabiner wears out someday climbers like me will replace it with a new one...just like chains...

 

Quicker (key in crowded climbing areas), easier, better (safer).

Edited December 14, 2015 by Hummerchine

[Sol]

I'd say best practices are for the leader to either leave two draws for the initial lower and any subsequent topropes. Then the final climber cleans the draws and lowers through the fixed anchor, minimizing wear.

 

Even easier: have the leader clip into the two cold shuts, then add a single biner to either the left or right bolt hanger and clip into that, effectively decreasing the wear on the two cold shuts by taking the load. Last climber simply pulls the single biner and lowers off via the fixed anchor.

[Bosterson]

I would agree that best practices for crags includes not TRing through fixed anchors. Last time I was at City of Rocks, I watched a party of half a dozen set up a TR on a short and easy route running directly through the ends of the rap chains. I had visions of Jete at Smith, where the big rap rings at the ends of the chains have sizable divots (like half of the diameter of the ring!) from people running TR ropes back and forth. (When I brought this up with the folks at City, their response was something like, "Oh we meannnttt to set up an anchor...")

 

I think with steel biners and cold shuts, it's a little different because those are easy to replace, but if you're going to have the whole family hang dog the route, you should build your own anchor to cut down on wear and tear to the fixed stuff. And sending an inexperienced second up to remove the anchor is just poor planning.

[ivan]

looks like booty to me

[montypiton]

I suggest that BEST practice is to NOT LOWER through resident hardware, whether steel or aluminum. Leader can install personal carabiners for entire party to use for climbing and lowering. Last climber should clean carabiners and thread rope through resident rings, then RAPPEL to exit. This practice completely avoids running a LOADED rope through the resident hardware, thus avoiding nearly all abrasive wear on that hardware.

[telemarker]

Don't piss Tom off! Just clip, TR and lower off the fixes biners! He has a couple hundred of them to burn through amyway. So much quicker than rapping, and the second is never taken off belay.

 

Sol's method is great too.

Edited December 15, 2015 by telemarker

[rat]

sol's "even easier" method, a one 'biner backup through one bolt hanger, would twist the rope in the system and put all the load on one bolt.

 

i agree with montypiton. with that method, one can also oppose carabiners or add a locker for redundancy.

 

also, those are quick links not cold shuts. their working load limit, depending on diameter, can be be less than the carabiner attached to them.

 

 

 

[Jim]

I suggest that BEST practice is to NOT LOWER through resident hardware, whether steel or aluminum. Leader can install personal carabiners for entire party to use for climbing and lowering. Last climber should clean carabiners and thread rope through resident rings, then RAPPEL to exit. This practice completely avoids running a LOADED rope through the resident hardware, thus avoiding nearly all abrasive wear on that hardware.

 

I also thought this was thr standard approach. It's quick if you know what you are doing, avoids leaving gear behind, and avoids wear on the anchor.

[el jefe]

looks like booty to me

 

Douchebag, Ivan. You are a real douchebag.

[ivan]

just trying to keep the ram-ram-rama kharma wheel spinning

 

any sport climb harder than 5.8 has nothing to fear from li'l ole me...

[mksportn]

I put steel biners on the end of chains on most of the routes I develop, and I know multiple developers that do as well, and not one of us expects people to use their own draws on that anchor. They are there for the climber to use. It defeats the purpose of the biners if you rig your own anchor on top of it. The only time I'll do/recommend that is if I plan to do multiple TR sessions on that anchor. But even then I don't expect that to happen. It doesn't even make sense to come up to the anchor, and then not clip the biner that is there...

The nice thing about having the biners on extended chains is that if you do want to TR, you can clip your rope into the steel biners, and then add your draws, and with the extended chains, your draws are shorter than the fixed biners, so all the load is on your draws, and then all your second has to do is unclip your draws, and its already loaded on to the fixed draws.

[Jim]

I still find this odd. Why would I use gear of unknown quality when it's easy to set up a top rope and then rap off without wear and tear on the anchor. It's a nice gesture but unnecessary. Don't folks know how to safely anchor, untie, set up rap and go??

[ScaredSilly]

I still find this odd. Why would I use gear of unknown quality when it's easy to set up a top rope and then rap off without wear and tear on the anchor. It's a nice gesture but unnecessary.

 

I think it is great when there is gear like steel biners that make it easy for everyone. An my props to those who spend the extra $$$. But I agree I would rather setup my own anchor and use the gear for rapping off just so it lasts longer. That said if being a bit lazy I might just clip and go.

 

Don't folks know how to safely anchor, untie, set up rap and go??

 

No, many do not.

 

[genepires]

Why would I use gear of unknown quality when it's easy to set up a top rope and then rap off without wear and tear on the anchor.

 

I think it is pretty easy to determine the quality of the fixed SS biners. Technically shouldn't you do a quick determination of your own gear when you set up a TR as well?

 

I think the whole point of the steel biners is that there is minimal wear anyways. So why is the point to minimize wear on the fixed biners always brought up? I would bet that most self placed anchors have more wear on their own gear than on the well used SS steel anchors that are placed for that use.

 

Don't folks know how to safely anchor, untie, set up rap and go??

 

Yes vast majority of users know how to rig their own TR. I think the biggest benefit is still for them though.

 

For example, lets say that .01% of people fuck up their TR anchors and fall to the ground. If 10 thousand people use that anchor over the course of the biners life, one could expect that 1 person will fuck it up. having people just clip in to the fixed biners may save lives of people over the course of the biners life. More steps in a process means more chances to make a mistake. Clipping the rope into two biners is easier and arguably safer than clipping 4 biners and doing whatever equalization you choose.

 

It is really a probability thing that eventually every experienced climbers will make a mistake and fall to the earth.

small price to pay for a route setters point of view who care about fellow climbers.

 

Edited December 16, 2015 by genepires

[Hummerchine]

One more thing I should have mentioned (and I appreciate everyone's input)...I've seen too many times where groups of climbers don't even know when they are going to be done with a climb so hog it by leaving their rope hanging there, waiting for someone to retrieve their gear left at the top...

[Jim]

Appreciate the explanation - things I didn't consider. Thanks

[Drederek]

These things are awesome, bootywise. Not to be stealing them but letting people too stupid/lazy/whatever get used to finding them, then when they hit a set of chains they'll just put a couple draws up and bail, forgetting them or not knowing how to thread or ?? More project draws abandoned for the taking!