bedellympian Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Disclaimer: This is not a page for aid haters, if you'd rather free climb get off your lazy butt and go do it. I have been alpine and free climbing for a few years now but would really like to get some experience aid climbing and either do Liberty Crack or some other grade V this year. I have tried aiding a 5.9 crack with a friend's aid setup once. I have done plenty of french-free and random stand on a sling BS, just screwing around at the crag and in the alpine. Really I want this experience just so that I can have another tool to push my alpine climbing. Questions I have for those who might know... 1. I know I need etriers and theoretically two daisies... is there any other MANDATORY gear I should get for C1? I have plenty of gear for trad climbing, lockers, etc. 2. Smith is my local crag so I have done plenty of A0 and avoided the A4 shit shows that seem to be everything else. If I was going to go do an intro multi-pitch aid climb, where should I go? Index? Anywhere closer to Central Oregon? 3. Anyone want to do a little mentoring in late June or July weekends? Thanks in advance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 check out these videos. very well done. that should tell you about gear you need and other great things too.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 1. use 2 ladders, not etriers - adjustable daisies are best (one ladder to each) - get a fifi hook 2. great multi-pitch is available at smith - west face of monkey is one (1st pitch is C1, hardest just above the initial bolt ladder), picnic lunch wall is epic, though after the c1 1st pitch it's mostly cheat-sticking on the massive 1/2 inch bolts - the 2nd pithc is a classic aid traverse, challenging for both the leader and follower (and mostly bolts) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shapp Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Patient belayer, seriously. Until you get efficient you will be slow. Biggest thing: learn to high step (i.e. get as far upward before placing a the next piece). Good luck. Lots of cracks in the gorge at Smith with no peeps. Edited June 1, 2015 by shapp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Get slider aiders, don't even mess with step aiders. They're better/faster for a number of reasons. I only use one daisy, and it's just a sling. City Park pitch 1, at Index but I'm sure there's stuff at Smith. Aid is useful, besides the obvious routes with mandatory aid, it's good to really learn gear placement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian clark eber Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 In my humble opinion, I think it's better atleast to start out on etrier' since there is a ton of stuff to learn for aid climbing, I'd atleast try using fifi-hooks instead of daisy chains, having to clip in everytine you move up really slows you down, as well, you can attach a fifi to your belay loop which you hook on to anything in front of you and lean back if you get tired. It's easier to show than explain. If you wanna hit up Index, let me know, I'll hook you up.;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian clark eber Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Here's my friend Jason on City Park. I set him up on a Solo TR set-up to rehearse cam-hook and fifi hook moves without having to worry about falling. Yeah I know, the hard aiders can flame away for making aid climbing fun and easy.;-) I think learning Aid should be broken down so you don't have to figure it all out at once.;-) Edited June 1, 2015 by brian clark eber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 seems a bad idea to not have a daisy on your top piece - if it blows, you most likely lose the gear and the ladder (assuming you didn't clip the rope to the top piece, which you shouldn't do b/c that unnecessarily lengthens the fall you'll take if the placement fails) no reason not to have a daisy and a fifi - even if using an adjustable daisy, it's simpler and easier to just connect via the fifi in most situations, as you lose time having to re-extend the daisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian clark eber Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 If you look at the photo I posted, the release holes on the fifi's are connected to the person so you don't loose your ladders, if you understand how fifi's work, you don't want your ladders to get hung up in the event of a fall, if you lose a piece of gear, well.......maybe you'll figure out how to set better gear.....alas to each his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
num1mc Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Why does a guy with bad ass tats have to TR an A1? Doesn't seem right. Edited June 1, 2015 by num1mc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 tats only give you +1 valor. A1 is still A1...and everyone one knows that aid climbers have much bigger cajones than free climbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 seems a bad idea to not have a daisy on your top piece - if it blows, you most likely lose the gear and the ladder (assuming you didn't clip the rope to the top piece, which you shouldn't do b/c that unnecessarily lengthens the fall you'll take if the placement fails) no reason not to have a daisy and a fifi - even if using an adjustable daisy, it's simpler and easier to just connect via the fifi in most situations, as you lose time having to re-extend the daisy. If you use slider aiders like I recommended they are cinched to your foot all the time, so no real need for a daisy, just a fifi. Faster, less clutter, higher high step on each piece. Typically with step aiders City Park takes me 20 placements, with sliders it's only 18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 In my humble opinion, I think it's better atleast to start out on etrier' since there is a ton of stuff to learn for aid climbing, I'd atleast try using fifi-hooks instead of daisy chains, having to clip in everytine you move up really slows you down, as well, you can attach a fifi to your belay loop which you hook on to anything in front of you and lean back if you get tired. It's easier to show than explain. If you wanna hit up Index, let me know, I'll hook you up.;-) step aiders are stone age equipment, just because you are climbing stone doesn't mean you have to live in the stone age. Step aiders are harder to use and mean more to learn not less. Aid is the slowest form of climbing there is, why would you want to make it s l o w e r ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian clark eber Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) I only hope someday I know everything Buckaroo.;-) Edited June 2, 2015 by brian clark eber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian clark eber Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) ...... Edited June 2, 2015 by brian clark eber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian clark eber Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Why does a guy with bad ass tats have to TR an A1? Doesn't seem right. Geez, you guys are a bunch of haters. No wonder no one wants to belay you!!!!! Haha.;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 In my humble opinion, I think it's better atleast to start out on etrier' since there is a ton of stuff to learn for aid climbing, I'd atleast try using fifi-hooks instead of daisy chains, having to clip in everytine you move up really slows you down, as well, you can attach a fifi to your belay loop which you hook on to anything in front of you and lean back if you get tired. It's easier to show than explain. If you wanna hit up Index, let me know, I'll hook you up.;-) step aiders are stone age equipment, just because you are climbing stone doesn't mean you have to live in the stone age. Step aiders are harder to use and mean more to learn not less. Aid is the slowest form of climbing there is, why would you want to make it s l o w e r ? By step aides are you meaning all ladder aiders and those offset step aiders too? Sliders may be modern but they are not better. Simple ladders aiders are the best but it ia all personal choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 By step aides are you meaning all ladder aiders and those offset step aiders too? Sliders may be modern but they are not better. Simple ladders aiders are the best but it ia all personal choices. Yes, all ladder aiders are obsolete. Tell me why specifically ladder aiders are the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian clark eber Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Buckaroo....The OP asked for help in learning Aid. I offered that. What YOU offer is your opinion on the best way to Aid. I don't see you offering ACTUAL help in teaching him Aid climbing. Everyone has there own way. You come on here like a Troll just looking for a debate. 18 piece's on City Park!!!!! Wow, I'm surprised there was any room for more gear in the crack!!!!! Sew it up!!!!!.;-). Why not help him, or start your own thread for debate's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
num1mc Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Your avatar photo is sideways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian clark eber Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Your avatar photo is sideways You're very perceptive.;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 No offense to anyone. Step aiders work okay and if that's what you know really well and you're not that worried about optimum performance then that's fine. Slider aiders. Remain secured to your foot thus are less likely to become tangled if compared to ladder aiders secured with a daisy at your waist. To secure ladder aiders to the same level you need one daisy on each. So now you have the rope, 2 daisies and a possible fifi at your tie in point. This can lead to a cluster. Are infinitely adjustable to any situation, unlike ladder aiders which have fixed step distances. This means on any particular placement you can step as high as physically possible. With ladder aiders you run into the problem of the 2nd step being too low and the top step being too high. Subsequently you don't always step as high as possible. This not only applies to the top step but to all steps. Moving up each step can be the optimum step up instead of stepping a fixed distance. An example would be, say you are at the bottom step with 4 step ladder aiders, it's 4 steps to the top. But with the right terrain and wall angle you can do it in 3 steps with slider aiders. With the cinch around your foot there's no problem when it's windy. With ladder aiders the loops are blowing off to the side and you fiddle around trying to get your foot in the step, then you have to lean down and grab the step by hand to hold it still so you can get your foot in it. Fit to different height climbers. Here again ladder aiders are fixed. If the step distance isn't optimum for your step distance you are stuck with what you have. Sliders can be fine tuned to anyone's ultimate step distance. Comfort. Slider aiders typically have a wider piece of webbing running under your foot so the force is spread over a larger area. For ladder aiders all the steps would have to be wider and this would adversely affect the weight. Also with the cinch foot strap it can be positioned for the best comfort and it will stay there, unlike ladder aiders which may be hard to always hit the optimum comfort zone. Jugging with sliders. Here again sliders are the best. There's no fiddling around to try to get the right height for the terrain. You just quickly set your optimum step distance and go. And you can fine tune the step distance mid pitch if the wall angle changes. Again with ladder aiders you are limited, if the best step for the jug is not just the right distance it's problematic to adjust. You may end up having to add a draw or sling, so then you have to take it on and off between leading and jugging, and the same if the wall angle changes mid pitch. The proof is in the performance. When I climbed with ladder aiders it took me 20 placements to climb City Park, when I switched to sliders that went down to 18 placements. That's an 8 to 12 ft. gain in 30M. And that's with custom made ladder aiders that I built to fit my height and step distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
num1mc Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Your avatar is right side up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 sorry Brian, I shouldn't have trolled a newcomer. No offense please. Welcome to CC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 aiding's like black magic - probably all bullshit, certainly none so true as the more obvious way of worshipping the Many Faced God i haven't used them - are these slide steppers as good for simple jugging? for moving between free and aid situations? for existing in multi-day big wall environments? definitely agree one of the best pieces of advice for the aspirant aid-clibmer is to learn a way to practice solo, either by tr'ing (seems kinda ghey) or lead climbing w/ a solo aid device (easy enough w/ a common gri-gri, including on smith routes like monkey west face) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.