Cuba

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

I'll give credit where it's due. This is way fucking overdue. Nice work, Obama!

 

 

[Jim]

I'm actually mixed about this. One of the reasons Cuba has such amazing natural heritage sites is because the flood of US tourists have been kept at bay. I'm off to work down there this spring under a grant-funded project with CCT - maybe just getting there under the wire. Man, I hope they spend their new found tourist money on some wise eco-tourism parameters.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I'm actually mixed about this. One of the reasons Cuba has such amazing natural heritage sites is because the flood of US tourists have been kept at bay. I'm off to work down there this spring under a grant-funded project with CCT - maybe just getting there under the wire. Man, I hope they spend their new found tourist money on some wise eco-tourism parameters.

 

There are tourists already from Canada, Europe and elsewhere. Exactly what sites would be impacted by these tourists and why aren't they already impacted?

 

[Jim]

I think it's just a matter of scale - and potential money that can be brought in by the US capital market - more hotels and a hella lot more people - with lots of cash.

 

Some of the best remaining forests, wetlands, and reefs in the Caribbean are in Cuba. And a host of endemic critters. There is substantially less development pressure in Cuba thanks to the embargo - we'll see how it shakes out.

 

Heritage Sites

 

Endemics

[ivan]

i see fox is still having kittens over it though

 

fukit, let's just be consistent - either we do business w/ commies or not - china's obviously on our christmas list so why not cuba?

 

i understand the deep internal politics that have driven the policy - i figure enough of that cold-war generation's died off now so as to let us move forward - keerist, the castro brothers don't look like they could even win a shuffleboard contest these days

[olyclimber]

I always thought the best weapon against communism was open relations. Once people get a taste of what things could be, they usually start demanding it for themselves.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I think it's just a matter of scale - and potential money that can be brought in by the US capital market - more hotels and a hella lot more people - with lots of cash.

 

Some of the best remaining forests, wetlands, and reefs in the Caribbean are in Cuba. And a host of endemic critters. There is substantially less development pressure in Cuba thanks to the embargo - we'll see how it shakes out.

 

Heritage Sites

 

Endemics

 

But if fat Americans just swarm resorts the only damage would be to an expanding (but small number) of resorts in certain areas, no?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

i see fox is still having kittens over it though

 

fukit, let's just be consistent - either we do business w/ commies or not - china's obviously on our christmas list so why not cuba?

 

i understand the deep internal politics that have driven the policy - i figure enough of that cold-war generation's died off now so as to let us move forward - keerist, the castro brothers don't look like they could even win a shuffleboard contest these days

 

Cuba flipped us a middle finger 50+ years ago and we've held a grudge ever since. We don't like it when other countries don't kow-tow to us :-)

[tvashtarkatena]

Cuba's reported to have some of the most pristine reefs in the world. If the rest of the Caribbean is any guide, it won't fare well under the massive tourism that will inevitably come from it's close in northern neighbor.

 

Much of the damage to reefs elsewhere (other than ocean warming and storm damage, which increases as sea surface temps rise), is due to recreational boat anchors, pollution from onshore development and boating, and agricultural runoff. It's a safe bet all three will increase as Cuba is opened up to American development.

 

These can be mitigated through wise development, but so far development in places like the neighboring Dominican Republic have gone the way of the all included mega resort with few to no anchoring restrictions nor anchor buoys.

 

I traversed the region in a kayak from Trinidad to the DR and found most of the reefs pretty denuded. Having said that, Cuba's reefs are more extensive and protected from the open ocean than further down the chain, so some of that is due to natural aspect. The popular anchoring spots, even in low population areas like the St. Vincents, were completely destroyed, however. Sad.

 

I did find the island reefs off Belize - Lighthouse Reef in particular, to be relatively untrammeled. 25 miles of open ocean protects Lighthouse from mainland traffic, and the local population is probably less than a 100 out there. The Atlantic is also less rough off Belize than the Eastern Caribbean, and Lighthouse is protected by its large extant. The region further south from there had had the shit kicked out of it by Hurricane Mitch, which just grazed the south end of Lighthouse Reef (removing all the sand from its beaches in the process).

 

I'm going to kayak the Northern reefs of Cuba at some point. Man, I want to experience that place before its too late.

[Jim]

Somehow the topic always ends up on the same soliloquy - no matter how tangential. Same ol'

 

Woody Allen said that masturbation was having sex with one of his favorite people.

[ivan]

dunno, seems like if yer hanging out on a website dedicated to adventerous recreation that you might have a penchant for telling tales of personal adventure?

[dougd]

Nothing more to add to the OP on this.

 

Except that it's definitely time to decriminalize Montecristos!

 

d

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Somehow the topic always ends up on the same soliloquy - no matter how tangential. Same ol'

 

Woody Allen said he that masturbation was having sex with one of his favorite people.

 

 

back on point your concerns about the influx of tourism are valid. I still think this move is way overdue.

[Jim]

I agree it's overdue. The embargo was mainly kept in place to satisfy the very vocal block in Florida - as evidenced by Mark Rubio's strong opposition. Hopefully the place doesn't get steamrolled by the new cash flow.

[Jim]

dunno, seems like if yer hanging out on a website dedicated to adventerous recreation that you might have a penchant for telling tales of personal adventure?

 

Oh, I'm a fan of mild chest beating as the next guy. But Ho-le-crap. It's like sitting at a bar scarfing beer nuts and the guy next to says "...this reminds me of the time we were on the south face...blah, blah, blah". Next it's the TV commercial, or the beer foam, or the coaster (!!!???) that fires the apparently low threshold synapse to seize the opportunity to launch into another unrelated chance for soothing whatever-the-fuck insecurities are driving this train.

 

After a while the repetition is quite tiresome. Even amongst the more restrained chest-beating of CLIMBERS.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

dunno, seems like if yer hanging out on a website dedicated to adventerous recreation that you might have a penchant for telling tales of personal adventure?

 

Oh, I'm a fan of mild chest beating as the next guy. But Ho-le-crap. It's like sitting at a bar scarfing beer nuts and the guy next to says "...this reminds me of the time we were on the south face...blah, blah, blah". Next it's the TV commercial, or the beer foam, or the coaster (!!!???) that presents and opportunity to launch into another unrelated opportunity for soothing whatever-the-fuck insecurities are driving this train.

 

After a while the repetition is quite tiresome. Even amongst the more restrained chest-beating of CLIMBERS.

 

[Fairweather]

No doubt the new Casino Batista Royale will soon be piping a steady stream of Barry Manilow elevator music into the ears of half-shaved pot-bellied ceegar smoking gringos all wearing big white hats while the booshwaa wives lounge by the pool.

[olyclimber]

Maybe Congress/Obama should declare Cuba a national park/Wilderness area...and prevent roads and other elements of humankind from being built there to keep it pristine from filthy, fat Americans. This would limit the stupid gringos and only the wholesome and fit humble backwoodsmen would ever dare visit.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Maybe Congress/Obama should declare Cuba a national park/Wilderness area...and prevent roads and other elements of humankind from being built there to keep it pristine from filthy, fat Americans. This would limit the stupid gringos and only the wholesome and fit humble backwoodsmen would ever dare visit.

 

Good idea! He could send NCNP rangers there from Marblemount to manage the area. Nobody would get in. (Except guide services who paid a franchising fee, of course)

[Jim]

Maybe Congress/Obama should declare Cuba a national park/Wilderness area...and prevent roads and other elements of humankind from being built there to keep it pristine from filthy, fat Americans. This would limit the stupid gringos and only the wholesome and fit humble backwoodsmen would ever dare visit.

 

Good idea! He could send NCNP rangers there from Marblemount to manage the area. Nobody would get in. (Except guide services who paid a franchising fee, of course)

 

Better yet would be those from MRNP, since they would never get the gate open.

[dougd]

Maybe Congress/Obama should declare Cuba a national park/Wilderness area...and prevent roads and other elements of humankind from being built there to keep it pristine from filthy, fat Americans. This would limit the stupid gringos and only the wholesome and fit humble backwoodsmen would ever dare visit.

 

Hate to be the pessimist/realist, and risk thread drift, but aren't Obama/Congress mutually exclusive?...

 

I've got it! EXECUTIVE ORDER!

 

 

[ivan]

pretty certain we can't establish a national park in a soveriegn state

[tvashtarkatena]

Got your locks wrapped around my axle again, Manpony?

 

You'll live.

 

Apparently while reading every single thing I post

 

 

[Fairweather]

Green Imperialism. It's all the rage.

[glassgowkiss]

pretty certain we can't establish a national park in a soveriegn state

Well, if we can bomb inside sovereign states, why not declare a national park?