election 2014

[ivan]

urban hipsters to the west, cranky geezers to the east

[Fairweather]

When B-Ho goes all exec-order on the border, the fireworks are gonna fly for sure.

 

When the R's start taking BamaCare apart piece-by-piece the fireworks are gonna fly for sure.

 

When Barry appoints another sycophant to head Justice in the lame duck, the fireworks are gonna fly for sure.

 

When the R's apply Harry Reid's semi-nuclear option simple majority, the fireworks are gonna fly.

 

Popcorn anyone?

[ivan]

naw, reruns bore me - think i'm gonna apply the next 8 years to fingerpainting w/ poo

 

 

[Fairweather]

[video:youtube]BUSRZo1BE5o

[Fairweather]

 

Initiatives exist because most legislatures find themselves out of touch with voters with regards to certain issues.

 

I take a bit longer view, even if it doesn't make for a tasty sound bite.

 

 

I agree. Oregon Measure 88 - failed with 68% against.

[ivan]

do you really need an id card in a world where everybody's named jesus? shiiiit, bet the mohammedians were way ahead of us on that one

[AlpineK]

[img:center]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Gtl5p4ai68w/UJsTZ9slHBI/AAAAAAAAD60/1kz3vDD93iI/s1600/spoken.jpg[/img]

[tvashtarkatena]

po lil NRA, outgunned by da Evil Big Money

[ivan]

are frame killing jpegs inherently conservative or liberal?

[Fairweather]

Sorry Feck, the peeps aren't belivin your boogeyman anymore. Move along.

[ivan]

plenty of men out there w/ boogies

[tvashtarkatena]

Initiatives are difficult, risky, and expensive. It's very difficult to get one passed - the long term planning and execution is daunting.

 

I 502 came at the tail end of a 12 year effort - public education, lobbying, legislative reform, polling, meetings with law enforcement, donor relationship development. The campaign was staffed with the best. The initiative was written by 2 of the most experienced constitutional lawyers in WA.

 

It took over 8 million bucks to get it passed.

 

Not every campaign can put all those moving parts together successfully. It's hard.

[Fairweather]

plenty of men out there w/ boogies

 

Damn straight.

[Fairweather]

Initiatives are difficult, risky, and expensive. It's very difficult to get one passed - the long term planning and execution is daunting.

 

I 502 came at the tail end of a 12 year effort - public education, lobbying, legislative reform, polling, meetings with law enforcement, donor relationship development. The campaign was staffed with the best. The initiative was written by 2 of the most experienced constitutional lawyers in WA.

 

It took over 8 million bucks to get it passed.

 

Not every campaign can put all those moving parts together successfully. It's hard.

 

I have no real gripe with the initiative process. On one hand, it is a bit "mob-rules," and has the potential to trample on minority rights/points of view if not buffered by the courts.

 

On the other hand, it sends messages to entrenched representatives.

 

Still, for a state to gain admission to the union, it must adopt a "representative form of governance." The initiative process is an after-the-fact end-run around this form of government. (Article IV, Sec 4.1)

 

Anyhow, I like the initiative process--but have some reservations about it.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Fairweather

[tvashtarkatena]

A vote of the electorate is mob rule?

 

OK. So much for democracy.

[mattp]

On balance, I agree with our esteemed Mr. Fairweather on this one.

 

The initiative process has led to some rather poor results that are really a reflection of paranoia or shallow thinking or what I guess he refers to as "mob rule" including the Eyeman initiatives. On balance, I think we would probably be better off if there was not such support in Washington law for the initiative process.

 

But at last night's 594 election night return event I saw a bunch of the usual liberal suspects who attend events that I attend making speeches about how it was a great night for the people of Washington when, after the Legislature failed to act, we could take this initiative to a vote of THE PEOPLE. Strange I thought: these same usual suspects were not saying that when initiatives 985, 1053, and 1185 were passed.

 

[Fairweather]

A vote of the electorate is mob rule?

 

OK. So much for democracy.

 

Sorry, I guess I just assumed you understood the historical roots and context of our republican system of government. My bad.

[tvashtarkatena]

It's 2014. Initiatives have been part of our constitution for over a century.

Edited November 6, 2014 by tvashtarkatena

[Jim]

Too bad we can't have an initiative banning paid signature gatherers for initiatives - that would be closer to the original intent.

 

But money= speech, right?

[tvashtarkatena]

Why don't you put together an initiative to ban them?

 

Good luck getting the signatures with just volunteers. Plan on getting 5% of the required 300,000 or so, because that's what you'll wind up with.

 

8% of the total votes cast in the last gubernatorial election is what's required - plus 15% extra to make sure all the signatures are valid.

 

The days of all volunteer signature gatherers are looooong gone. Like it or not, that's today's reality.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2014 by tvashtarkatena

[Jim]

True that. And isn't there something in the original legislation that would have to be changed before this hypothetical option could occur? Didn't we cover this once?

 

As in most political deals, money rules.

[tvashtarkatena]

A popular defeatist mantra. Too cynical for my tastes. The good fight must be fought.

[Choada_Boy]

Did any dead guys get elected? That's always my favorite: "I'm going to vote for a dead guy instead of you."

[Jim]

Not that I know of -- only the ones chose by the electorate (30%) and the moneyed interests (1% or less) in the guise of free speech.

 

Yea, we're making progress ok. In the coming budget battles who do you think, for instance, will win out - social needs/infrastructure/environments or the Pentagon?

 

I know - at least the Dems throw a bone or two in that direction.

[tvashtarkatena]

While the Battle of the Titans rages back and forth across the same battered ground, WA moves forward, leading by example.