ivan Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 urban hipsters to the west, cranky geezers to the east Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 When B-Ho goes all exec-order on the border, the fireworks are gonna fly for sure. Â When the R's start taking BamaCare apart piece-by-piece the fireworks are gonna fly for sure. Â When Barry appoints another sycophant to head Justice in the lame duck, the fireworks are gonna fly for sure. Â When the R's apply Harry Reid's semi-nuclear option simple majority, the fireworks are gonna fly. Â Popcorn anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 naw, reruns bore me - think i'm gonna apply the next 8 years to fingerpainting w/ poo   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 [video:youtube]BUSRZo1BE5o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Â Initiatives exist because most legislatures find themselves out of touch with voters with regards to certain issues. Â I take a bit longer view, even if it doesn't make for a tasty sound bite. Â Â I agree. Oregon Measure 88 - failed with 68% against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 do you really need an id card in a world where everybody's named jesus? shiiiit, bet the mohammedians were way ahead of us on that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 [img:center]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Gtl5p4ai68w/UJsTZ9slHBI/AAAAAAAAD60/1kz3vDD93iI/s1600/spoken.jpg[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 po lil NRA, outgunned by da Evil Big Money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 are frame killing jpegs inherently conservative or liberal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Sorry Feck, the peeps aren't belivin your boogeyman anymore. Move along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 plenty of men out there w/ boogies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Initiatives are difficult, risky, and expensive. It's very difficult to get one passed - the long term planning and execution is daunting. Â I 502 came at the tail end of a 12 year effort - public education, lobbying, legislative reform, polling, meetings with law enforcement, donor relationship development. The campaign was staffed with the best. The initiative was written by 2 of the most experienced constitutional lawyers in WA. Â It took over 8 million bucks to get it passed. Â Not every campaign can put all those moving parts together successfully. It's hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 plenty of men out there w/ boogies  Damn straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) Initiatives are difficult, risky, and expensive. It's very difficult to get one passed - the long term planning and execution is daunting. Â I 502 came at the tail end of a 12 year effort - public education, lobbying, legislative reform, polling, meetings with law enforcement, donor relationship development. The campaign was staffed with the best. The initiative was written by 2 of the most experienced constitutional lawyers in WA. Â It took over 8 million bucks to get it passed. Â Not every campaign can put all those moving parts together successfully. It's hard. Â I have no real gripe with the initiative process. On one hand, it is a bit "mob-rules," and has the potential to trample on minority rights/points of view if not buffered by the courts. Â On the other hand, it sends messages to entrenched representatives. Â Still, for a state to gain admission to the union, it must adopt a "representative form of governance." The initiative process is an after-the-fact end-run around this form of government. (Article IV, Sec 4.1) Â Anyhow, I like the initiative process--but have some reservations about it. Edited November 6, 2014 by Fairweather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 A vote of the electorate is mob rule? Â OK. So much for democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 On balance, I agree with our esteemed Mr. Fairweather on this one. Â The initiative process has led to some rather poor results that are really a reflection of paranoia or shallow thinking or what I guess he refers to as "mob rule" including the Eyeman initiatives. On balance, I think we would probably be better off if there was not such support in Washington law for the initiative process. Â But at last night's 594 election night return event I saw a bunch of the usual liberal suspects who attend events that I attend making speeches about how it was a great night for the people of Washington when, after the Legislature failed to act, we could take this initiative to a vote of THE PEOPLE. Strange I thought: these same usual suspects were not saying that when initiatives 985, 1053, and 1185 were passed. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 A vote of the electorate is mob rule? Â OK. So much for democracy. Â Sorry, I guess I just assumed you understood the historical roots and context of our republican system of government. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) It's 2014. Initiatives have been part of our constitution for over a century. Edited November 6, 2014 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Too bad we can't have an initiative banning paid signature gatherers for initiatives - that would be closer to the original intent. Â But money= speech, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) Why don't you put together an initiative to ban them? Â Good luck getting the signatures with just volunteers. Plan on getting 5% of the required 300,000 or so, because that's what you'll wind up with. Â 8% of the total votes cast in the last gubernatorial election is what's required - plus 15% extra to make sure all the signatures are valid. Â The days of all volunteer signature gatherers are looooong gone. Like it or not, that's today's reality. Â Â Edited November 6, 2014 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 True that. And isn't there something in the original legislation that would have to be changed before this hypothetical option could occur? Didn't we cover this once? Â As in most political deals, money rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 A popular defeatist mantra. Too cynical for my tastes. The good fight must be fought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Did any dead guys get elected? That's always my favorite: "I'm going to vote for a dead guy instead of you." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Not that I know of -- only the ones chose by the electorate (30%) and the moneyed interests (1% or less) in the guise of free speech. Â Yea, we're making progress ok. In the coming budget battles who do you think, for instance, will win out - social needs/infrastructure/environments or the Pentagon? Â I know - at least the Dems throw a bone or two in that direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 While the Battle of the Titans rages back and forth across the same battered ground, WA moves forward, leading by example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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