Winter Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 I am at work kililng time, so I figured I would post this quote I just read: "Other useful, though seldom indispensible, articles of equipment are crampons, or climbing irons. These consist of iron or steel frames, with projecting spikes, that are fastened to the sole of the shoe and permit the wearer to gain a purchase on ice or hard snow which would be impossible in ordinary nailed boots. On long uphill trudges of not too steep gradient crampons can take the place of step cutting, but on extremely steep slopes they serve merely as an additional safeguard against slipping. Their chief disadvantage is that they are heavy and cumbersome to carry when not in use." James Ramsey Ullman, High Conquest . This is from 1941 ... shortly after Ome Daiber pioneered Libery Ridge. Unbelievable what these guys did back in the day - no screws, shitty crampons, wool clothes (no cell phones). How much would that suck to get to the crux of route, have to take off your crampons and start cutting steps with no belay? Here's to the old-timers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 I agree, Winter, but just to clarify: I don't think anyone took their crampons off when the ice got steep - Rather, they had to cut steps when the ice got steep, and the crampons kept their feet from slipping out of the steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott_J Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 Colin, the first Fench guides did not use crampons, but had nailed boots(triconi I believe the spelling goes). Crampons were viewed as cheating and then the damn Germans used 12 points on the Eiger, fucking cheaters.hahahahahahaha I love the Germans always on top of ingenuity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Yes, I know - but we're talking about once crampons WERE in use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 hence, French Technique... the art of moving up ice without the use of front points. Standard moves with either crampons, or tricorns, i'd imagine. But much easier with a cramp vs. hobnails. Aditionally, when the scots were faced with dicey moves, sans crampons, there are anecdotal tales of taking off boots and climbing in wool socks, to get better grip in the steps, as oppossed to keeping boots on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriss Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 The germans only had 10 points. \ It was the Austrians that had 12 points. chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Wool works real well if you wanna be truly hardcore. I saw Germans trekking in Nepal who wore Birkenstocks for the entire Annapurna circuit. On the pass, they pulled their socks over the sandals to get a grip on the few snowfields. Maybe you could climb Liberty Ridge in socks and make the first shoeless ascent (I think somebody has already done the top few hudred feet with only one boot after dropping the other from their bivouac but didn't they then have to be rescued? that probably doesn't count). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 When Bruce Hendricks soloed Supercouloir on Deltaform, he dropped one of his plastic boots at the bivi and finished that route off with "a Superfang on 6 pairs of wool socks" on one foot. My understanding of UK sock use was that it was done, not on ice, but on wet rock climbs where nailed boots or tennis shoes gave no grip. Nowadays the Japanese make special felt-soled shoes like fishermen use specifically for climbing wet rock during summer waterfall ascents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacier Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I recall reading a climbing narrative a few years back of a pair of brits nabbing the 1st free ascent of some now-classic 5.10 dihedral. They arrived during rain to find the rock wet, so the leader doffed his shoes and climbed in his wool socks. About 1/2-way up he dropped his hammer, nearly cold-cocking his belayer. With no second hammer to place pins, a half-conscious belayer, and no chance to downclimb in the wet conditions his quote, at this point, was, "I had no choice but to retreat upward." Oh, and I believe that Hillary and Tenzing chopped steps on their ascent of Everest - no front points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Socks = Aid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I saw a picture of Ray with 1 sock once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 That's just because Ullman was behind the times - Heckmair & Vorg used 12 points on the 1st assent of the Eiger NF. His autobio has a funny commment about all the peope using 12 pointers nowadays walking on glaciers when they're only useful for climbing ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Yeah, I've seen Ray with but one sock as well... If you see a sock in the bushes somewhere, just leave it alone -- sometimes booty gear is not all it's cracked up to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 That's just because Ullman was behind the times - Heckmair & Vorg used 12 points on the 1st assent of the Eiger NF. His autobio has a funny commment about all the peope using 12 pointers nowadays walking on glaciers when they're only useful for climbing ice. There is the potential for a rapid transition from walking on a glacier to climbing out of a crevasse that could be expedited more efficiently with 12 pointers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 When Bruce Hendricks soloed Supercouloir on Deltaform, he dropped one of his plastic boots at the bivi and finished that route off with "a Superfang on 6 pairs of wool socks" on one foot. After seeing this particular comment for about the 4th or 5th time, something has struck me as odd: Since the mentioned route is usually climbed in a day, why did he bivy? Also, why would he have six pairs of wool socks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Good questions, ScottP. It could be that they didn't complete the climb in a day, and that his partner felt sorry for him gave him all HIS extra socks. Who knows? Please don't shred this wonderfull tale 'cause its inspiring and I, for one, want to believe it. Now who is going to go for that first sock ascent of Lib Ridge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Good questions, ScottP. It could be that they didn't complete the climb in a day, and that his partner felt sorry for him gave him all HIS extra socks. Who knows? Please don't shred this wonderfull tale 'cause its inspiring and I, for one, want to believe it. Now who is going to go for that first sock ascent of Lib Ridge? I'm sorry if you construed my questions as a shredding of this tale. I know little about the route, little about ice climbing, and little about the person who completed the route in unquestionably admirable style. I was just curious, having heard this story more than once. Since he was soloing the route, I assumed that he was carrying all six pairs of socks and had the skills to get up it in a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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