Ha-ro from North Korea!

[tvashtarkatena]

Why all the outrage? N Korea is simply following the same military strategy we have.

 

Given that the US

 

a) invented nuclear weapons

b) is the only country to have used them in warfare

and c) maintains nearly 10,000 nuclear warheads today

 

What can the US really say about N Korea's 3rd nuclear test that isn't patently hypocritical?

 

I know, I know...this observation means I love communism and sleep with Kim Jong Un.

 

I do like Korean food.

Edited February 12, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[rob]

Excellent points, although it's worth mentioning that the U.S. never signed agreements not to build nuclear weapons or test them in exchange for money and concessions and then reneged after receiving payment. To be fair.

Edited February 12, 2013 by rob

[tvashtarkatena]

They announced they would suspend their program to allow inspections - no dates or time limits, but never signed any treaties or anything. They've played this game before, so this behavior is to expected. The US reneges on 'verbal commitments' all the time.

 

They are the Bad Teenager of Asia, fo sho.

Edited February 12, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[olyclimber]

what is patently unfair is that everyday god loving Americans can't legally own nukes for protection from the government

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

I can safely say that Mr. Kaplan and myself should be excluded from the list of citizens allowed to own such devices, should they become available in the future.

[rob]

regardless, I hear the U.N. is "really going to take action this time, we mean it"

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Never forget that N Korea imports 100% of its fuschia fabric.

Edited February 12, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[Pete_H]

Good points Tvash. If we have nukes we should be FAIR and make sure everyone has them too. If you bring cupcakes, or enriched uraniam yellowcake, to school you better bring enough for everyone, even the weird kid who tortures puppies after school. Afterall, international politics is all about being FAIR.

[Pete_H]

Yes its hypocritical. But what's worse: being a hypocrite or having Kim Ill Jong nuclearate the whole world?

 

I do agree though, Korean food can be damn good.

[rob]

Obviously the solution to nuclear proliferation is...more nukes! We should have them in every elementary school, at least.

 

Also, you guys are crazy: korean food is NAST!

[ivan]

Yes its hypocritical. But what's worse: being a hypocrite or having Kim Ill Jong nuclearate the whole world?

 

I do agree though, Korean food can be damn good.

n korea is, remember, a very small country that, even it dedicated itself entirely to building nukes, would still not be a fraction as menancing as the soviet union was

 

we doesn't the MAD scenario of the cold war still work here?

 

sure, it makes sense to try to dissuade n.k. from building them, but as that seems only to cause them to cheat and us to get nothign for our money, why not just say fuck it, and maybe send li'l kim a vhs-copy of "atomic cafe" to remidn him who he's thinking about fucking with?

[tvashtarkatena]

It's quite a stretch between stating that outrage is not called for one a nation merely parrots the behavior of another and giving everyone nukes, and my hamstring isn't gonna handle that right now.

[Pete_H]

Cool. Well then what really was your point other than to point out the double standard of our foreign policy, which I thought has been pretty obvious since the early 19th century.

[rob]

We should have just copyrighted the A-bomb, then we could use the DMCA to shut down their facebooks because of Scientology

[JayB]

Good points Tvash. If we have nukes we should be FAIR and make sure everyone has them too. If you bring cupcakes, or enriched uraniam yellowcake, to school you better bring enough for everyone, even the weird kid who tortures puppies after school. Afterall, international politics is all about being FAIR.

 

Talk about unfair - we totally excluded the Third-Reich and imperial Japan from the Manhattan Project. Way unfair.

 

Speaking of North Korea, I read a couple of good books on the place not too long ago:

 

"Nothing to Envy, Ordinary Lives in North Korea," by Barbara Demick and "Escape from Camp 14" by Blaine Harden.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-Envy-Ordinary-Lives-North/dp/0385523912

 

http://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0670023329/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1360709001&sr=1-1&keywords=escape+from+camp+14

 

 

[ivan]

"The most persistent sound which reverberates through man's history is the beating of war drums."

 

i guess we always need something to fear? quite the long list for us as a country:

redcoats, frenchies, slaves, injuns, iraqiis, persians, pirates, mexicans, catholics, jews, chinamen, japs, anarchists, italians, socialists, communists, faggots, fascists, atheists, cubans, chicanos, russians and now rotund ko-reans who we outnuke a thousand times over, yet no doubt can still be reasonalbly construed to pose so mortal a threat we must accelerate our preparations for Total War immediately!

 

i'm sure i'm missing somebody in there though...

[olyclimber]

How come none of you asshats has put this video here yet?

 

[video:youtube]UEaKX9YYHiQ

[mountainsandsound]

In his life Kim Jong Il was a movie buff. So I would imagine he saw Team America. I've always wondered what he thought of it.

[tvashtarkatena]

Cool. Well then what really was your point other than to point out the double standard of our foreign policy, which I thought has been pretty obvious since the early 19th century.

 

My point was the one I made. N Korea's following a rational course, they already had nukes, and there's little cause for outrage, most of which, I suspect, is street theatre anyway.

 

You may continue to run with it in the KKK fashion, but it just makes you appear less intelligent than I suspect you actually are.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[rob]

I thought they had plutonium for about six bombs, but that the impact of this test was that they were testing a new miniature design towards their goal of getting one small enough for one of their shitty rockets. Or do you think that's fake and they just rolled out one of their old, cob webbed relics out of the garage?

 

Hard to say with North Korea

 

You really think they're following a rational course? Sounds like a waste of money and resources to me, especially for them

[Jim]

 

Speaking of North Korea, I read a couple of good books on the place not too long ago:

 

....... and "Escape from Camp 14" by Blaine Harden.

 

THAT, was a grim read. Basically on the verge of starving - always - and the constant betrayal by friends and family because they were so scared. And that is just a peak behind the curtain. No, that country's rulers are wacked.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

No, that country's rulers are wacked.

 

Yep, and anything but "rational".

[rob]

I guess everyone is wondering if this was their first uranium weapon? I guess we'll know in a few days when the isotopes drift over the border.

 

Didn't NK claim they were starting uranium enrichment a few years ago? Makes sense they'd have enough by now

[tvashtarkatena]

If they are playing the 'pay me to stop' game, which it seems they are, then testing a nuke every now and then could be a profitable venture. It seems like it has been in the past. In addition, it is a powerful 'do not fuck with me' message.

 

The threat, of course, is not that N Korea will go toe to toe with America in a strategic nukular exchange. Rather, any conflict with N Korea will put America at odds with China, put S Korea at risk of bombardment from 70,000 artillery pieces, or increase that risk that N Korean missiles and bomb materials will magically find their way into the hands of Da Evil Doers.

 

So, yes, if you're a resource poor, inefficient, totalitarian regime who wants to keep the lid on your closed society, blowing off a mini-nuke now and then to remind the world that you're still capable of farting in its closet is perfectly rational...if you've got the leverage do pull it off. N Korea clearly does.

 

'Rational' is from the regime's standpoint, of course. The regime certainly isn't crazy - they've pulled off a 60+ year long remake of 1984 - quite an accomplishment really, and one no that few, if any, regimes have even come close to topping.

 

So, no, I'm not on the 'LIKE IF YOU'RE OUTRAGED' wagon regarding N Korea's third fireworks display (OUTRAGEOUS!!!). Generalize that to mean I fully support the N Korean regime, with all its civil rights abuses, as needed.

 

[rob]

I haven't seen all that outrage, I guess. Certainly nobody seems that surprised. They certainly seem to be trying to give us the impression that they're actively improving their nuclear technology, but I guess that remains to be seen.

 

Assuming they are successfully building new smaller uranium devices I wonder what should/can be done about it? Basically pay them to stop testing? Uranium enrichment facilities are pretty easy to hide.... Of course, there is the philosophical question of finer even have the right?

 

Personally, I think our ally South Korea is the real risk. And Japan. I read South Korea is ramping up their ballistic missile program in retaliation. That works perfectly for the North Koreans, whom I suspect have no real intention of going to war

 

But do we want a country like NK enriching and weaponizing uranium? Probably not. It's a sticky widget