Leashless Modifications

[Lambone]

Ok, thats it. I'm hooked on this leashless thing. I don't care if I am only climbing WI 3 because I'm fat and out of shape (all the UW's fault), ditching the leashes is fun and feels good.

 

But...I am not about to spend $400 on fancy leashles tools. I like my Cobras and I want to use those. But after using a pair of Jim Nelsons Top Machines, I think like the fancy pinki holder thing.

 

Does anybody have any good ideas about how to make these more leashless friendly. i.e. some kind of pinki holder? I don't believe that the new Viper Fang works with the Cobra, still waiting for a reply onn that from BD.

 

Any other ideas, besides duct taping a tennis ball on? Bring the Ice!

[bolt_clipper]

I was wondering about that too. I've got the Rage, with the 'pinky fuckthing', but seems you definitely want something that will create a sort of pinky jam. Will Gadd wrote about hot-rodding tools-with a drill (!). Dunno about that. Why don't you just epoxy viper fangs to some old tools, see how that works. Interesting topic.

[Rainier_Wolfscastle]

Looks like Trango just came out with a leashless tool that has interchangeable handles for leashless and leashed climbing. Swaps shafts like the CM pulsar. There is a pic of it in the new Rock and Ice. Looks kinda cool. They are usually less expensive than BD and CM. Don't think I could drill a hole in my Cobras. I've seen people use hose clamps to hold on pinky rests in the past.

[fishstick]

Below are copied modifications used on a cobra. Rope thimbles are curved

metal bits used to reinforce bites of rope for industrial applications.

 

"Not sure what Rope Thimbles are used for but just go to a hardware store

and

ask for them. I used the 3/8" size and hacksawed them into a "J" shape. I

then drilled a hole through the top of the "J" after hammering the top

flatter. I then drilled holes through my tool's shaft and attached 2 of

these per tool. One at the bootom and one just above were yor index finger

would go. The top one I use for matching. I used T-nuts so there wasn't an

obtrusive bolt and nut sticking out of the shaft. I then wrapped the whole

gripping area in sticky tape and added a strip of velcro to the underside

of

the upper shaft. I have velcro patches on the shoulders of my climbing top

to stick the tools to".

 

I hope that helps a bit.

 

GB

[wdietsch]

I have wondered if the trigger finger gizmo Grivel uses on the "Top Machine" and now the "Top Wing" would fit on other shafts. The thought of drilling holes into to my tools doesn't sound very appealing, but maybe that just the "M.E." in me, besides I have old BDBP's and I really don't think it would work with the "hourglass" profile of the shaft.

[mwills]

good topic bone - i'd first check out the fang for the viper and see if there is anyway you could modify it for your cobras. it will take some creativity since the points of the two tools are quite different . for those wondering what a rope thimble looks like:

 

[wdietsch]

Trango "Madame Hook" ... and hey Wolfgang that is one ugly picture of the fat dude on the computer

 

http://www.trango.com/showitem.cfm?catnum=27&itemnum=182

[bolt_clipper]

The Grivel gizmo might work on the Rage or Shrike though. Where can you get these? (I assume REI doesn't have them)

[fleblebleb]

As far as I know BD doesn't make a modification kit for using the Cobras without leashes - that's pretty annoying considering how much a pair costs. Lambone could you post back when you get a reply? There are probably a bunch of people on this board alone that want to know.

[Lambone]

Still no reply from BD....

 

My guess is that they haven't come up with anything marketable yet. I bet in a year or two they will have an adaptor similar to the Viper Fang. Then it will go through a series of recalls...

[Lambone]

Here is the message I got from BD. It was just lost within my junk mail filter. Their response was actually pretty prompt.

 

"Matt,

Thanks for writing. At this point, we don't have anything similar to the

Viper Fang for the Cobra. We have been receiving a lot of correspondence

suggesting that we develop something, though. So, the fellas in design just

may come up with something. As for this year, there's really nothing we can

offer. My apologies."

 

 

[wdietsch]

if you really want something and know a good machinist or have access to a milling center yourself why not make your own .. shit maybe you could even sell them

[Jens]

Dry tooling leashless is sure cool! I've been doing a lot of it this fall on my home wall. I did some at Cascade Crags before the comp.

----Although I'm not quite sold on it for WA or BC and here's why:

We have conditions that are unlike much of the rest of the continent for ice climbing. We often wallow though heavy wet slush or cascade "mashed potatoes" to get to the base of our climbs. Our climbs are often running wet big time. We are often ice climbing in 33 degree snow/ rain mixed. This means that the shafts of our ice tools are usuully soaking wet when we climb making leashless climbing often impractical. This is not as often the case for the rocky mt. states, alsaka or the Canadian rockies. The boys and girls leashless climbing there have bone dry shafts 90% of the time. (Try a timed dead hang off one tool with a wet shaft and one with a dry shaft- It will really shock you)

Another point: I will agree that leashless climbing is often better for steep bolted mixed dry tooling routes. I can count the number of such routes here in WA on one hand. And I haven't seen much more up in BC. If we were to get at a bunch more such routes, I'd be a least tempted to throw away my leashes.

-----------------------------

Everthing wet and no cavish mixed= keep the leashes

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lambone]

Now Jens...come on, thats about the silliest thing I have ever seen you post here. Don't make me call in the whhhaaaaammmbulance...

 

I pretty much disagree with every point you just made.

 

First, if you are limiting your leashless climbing to home woodies and indoor foam walls, well you either lack vision, or really do need the whambulance.

 

Second, ice climbing is an inherently wet endeavor. I don't care where you are, Rockies, Cascades, Canada, Europe....whatever. Ice melts, the water drips on you, and you get wet. Your gloves get wet, your underwear gets wet, your tools get wet...and you deal with it. Arn't those pictures of you climbing in a t-shirt in Hylatie last week? Don't try and tell me that the ice wasn't dripping on you up there. Temps in the Rockies can go from well below freezing to 50 degrees f during a sunny day. Infact, from my experience, I only remained dry about 10% of the time climbing in Hyalite. Usualy when it was below 0 degrees.

 

So in other words, I'm not buyin that excuse.(Although I might use it later on sometime )

 

And third, I don't beleive that leashless climbing should or will be limited to steep mixed routes. Albeit I have'nt done much leashless climbing(on lead that is) yet, but it seems to me that going leashless on standard waterfall ice is not only more fun, but has alot the same benefits as it does on steep rock. I'm not strong enough for those big number steep climbs, and I don't plan on training that hard to get there. But going sans leashes seems like another way to revisit the feelings of insequrity that climbing moderate water ice used to give me. With leashes it's just allways bomber, unchalenging, and just starts to get boring.

 

Now don't take this personaly Jens. I agree that wet shafts are slipperier, which is why I 'm wondering how tools can be modified (at home) inorder to negate the slipperiness. This thread was just ment to get some ideas flowing, while wating for winter to come to our neck of the woods. Have fun, climb on!

[Scott_J]

Yo, Jens Alaska(south central) is not BONE dry for about 1/2 of the ice season, and then there is at least one and probably more that flow at -20 F cause they are fed by warm water springs on top. My buddy Reed and I did one in Hunter Creek that was flowing so much that we looked like knights in shining armor and our ropes were so frozen at the end of the climb that we called it a day. Great time with great friends.

Edited December 9, 2002 by sisu_suomi

[cj001f]

"And third, I don't beleive that leashless climbing should or will be limited to steep mixed routes. Albeit I have'nt done much leashless climbing(on lead that is) yet, but it seems to me that going leashless on standard waterfall ice is not only more fun, but has alot the same benefits as it does on steep rock."

 

What technical benefit is to be gained by going leashless on any route that's full ice, and Grade 4-5 or below, besides making it easier to take your hands out to place screws?

[Lambone]

I would say that the greatest benefit for me is being able to let go of the tool, drop my hands low, shake out, and get the blood back in my fingers. I do this all the time when I'm not using leashes, and my fingers stay alot warmer.

 

Plus you can choke up and match on one tool, and other neat stuff like that. I think I use about the same amount of energy with or without leashes. Climbing without them just makes me concentrate on standing on my feet more.

 

But mostly it's just more fun, for some odd mental sorta reason. kinda like climbing trad instead of sport, or tele skiing instead of alpine. Greater margin for error, and less room to be lazy or un focused. Just my opinion.

[Jens]

Good thread.

 

I think the answer is to own two pairs of tools?- That's my plan in a few years. Keep the funky tools that don't swing well in the car and pull them out for that roadside sport thing.

Something to note: some of the people that are pushing for leashless climbing (Gadd, Isaac) say that leashes are and should be used on big waterfall climbs.

Climbing leashless though definitely puts a new thrill on some of those more moderate climbs that were once really scary for us?

[Lambone]

Yeah...two sets of tools...dream, drool...wake up...shit back to reality...only if...

 

Yeah, if I was Bill Gates I'd have Ergo's for 1 pitch ice craggin and Cobras for everything else. But for now I will just havta suffer with Cobras

[bolt_clipper]

I fondled the Ergo at REI. I liked the grip with bare hands. I couldn't swing the thing to save my life, but for hooking...maybe. So I put on some gloves, tried the grip. Goddamn thing is WAYYYYYY too small. Doesn't anyone else out there have HUGE hands/feet? Come on!! Am I a freak? (Don't reply Eric8, you know the answer.)

[snoboy]

So I put on some gloves, tried the grip. Goddamn thing is WAYYYYYY too small. Doesn't anyone else out there have HUGE hands/feet? Come on!!

 

You know what they say, "Huge hands = huge...."

 

Actually I have a problem with that too. While feet aren't too much trouble, hands are. I can only find a few gloves that I can actually get on. And I actually like the size of my shafts on my BD Prophets.

 

Maybe some one will come up with a modular system with different size grips and stuff??

 

"...huge gloves"

[Dru]

Big shaft is like holding a sloper

 

Small shaft is like holding a jug.

 

Should be easier to do even with big hands?

[bolt_clipper]

Not entirely true, Dru. Think of trying to hold on to a chopstick. It takes mucho strength. Tennis players have interechangeable handles, why can't we? Huh, BD?

[Dru]

Ow, Im getting pumped from eating this here Buddha's Feast! More

[mwills]

i don't think you would be doing any plunging with those ergos , so building the grip up shouldn't be a problem.