Baruntse - WTF

[Jake_Gano]

Bought these things three weeks ago. One of the big reasons I went for it over the Scarpa 6000s is that I thought they'd be more durable. WTF. This was after their second day out. Admittedly, it was a *bit* of a bushwhack, nothing my old Freney XTs couldn't handle. Looks like they're going right back to the shop they came from...

 

You can see in the third photo the fabric on the left boot is starting to wear through, although it didn't reach failure like the right boot. So it's not an isolated issue.

 

 

[img:left]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8204/8263682866_7946177740_z.jpg[/img]

 

[img:left]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8224/8262613517_e047f3ae13_z.jpg[/img]

 

 

[Luzak00]

+1 for Backcountry, REI, etc.'s return policy. I've heard Sportiva isn't the nicest when it comes to these sorts of things.

[Dane]

Odd to me that some how anyone would envision this being the gun's fault. Not sure an owner's manual will help. But good luck on that "warrenty".

 

[wfinley]

Admittedly, it was a *bit* of a bushwhack, nothing my old Freney XTs couldn't handle. Looks like they're going right back to the shop they came from...

 

Bummer. The bushwhack that keeps on taking.

 

 

 

[B Deleted_Beck]

Is that from rubbing on the inside of your pant leg, or did you have your pants bloused?

[T Newman]

Damn..... I can relate, but only because my golden retriever's name is bushwack. Her first six months all my boots looked like that.

[Jake_Gano]

Odd to me that some how anyone would envision this the gun's fault. Not sure an owner's manual will help. But good luck on that "warrenty".

 

Whatever. As much as I shelled out for these, I am entitled to a reasonable expectation of durability. I've done plenty of climbing (and bushwhacking) in plenty of different boots and I've never had anything fall apart so quickly.

I accept and appreciate that you sacrifice durability to some extent with the newest generation of ice boots. But these aren't exceptionally light boots, and I picked them over lighter models (e.i the 6000s), for, among other reasons, the appearance of durability comparable to my old plastics. If I had been beating these things up hard for a season, or even a few months, I would accept seeing the boots fail. But one day that involved a few hours of bushwhacking? No good. The fact that the other boot is showing wear almost to the point of failure tells me that it wasn't some odd sharp rock that I caught.

[Jake_Gano]

Is that from rubbing on the inside of your pant leg, or did you have your pants bloused?

 

Don't know what you mean by "bloused" but the cuffs on my pants weren't tightened down, and I wasn't wearing gators. I was not anticipating and did not encountered snow deeper than an inch or two.

 

The fabric that failed is surprising light, almost felt-like. Compare that to a heavier, cordura-type material on my Scarpa Omegas. Seems like an odd choice to use such a flimsy material on an otherwise pretty bomb-proof boot.

 

 

[Dane]

Jake, you won't like this comment I suspect. Just my personal observation and opinion, nothing more. Certainly not intended as a personal insult. So please don't take it that way.

 

Just to be clear I have no (none/zip/denada) ties of any kind to La Sportiva, past I generally (but not always) like their boots.

 

Knowing the Baruntse fairly well resulted in my smart ass picture and remarks.

 

If I use any piece of gear in a hap hazard manner I can destroy it in short order. Two days? How about a couple of hours? I regret having done so without thinking a couple of times.

 

The elastic nylon cuff on the Baruntse that failed so miserably here is suppose to be a light weight gaiter of sorts to keep snow out of the boot. It is nothing more. And doesn't work all that well as intended imo.

 

I understand the boot is new to you. But if you were expecting that gaiter to take a crampon hit (it won't) or sustained bush wacking through obvious ankle biters of slide alder without some additional protection or extra care you are mistaken (no shit Dane, that is obvious NOW, Jake says) A pant gaiter or a regular gaiter would have protected the boot's upper cuff. Which it obviously needed in those circumstances. Both the Spantik (which has the same stretchy gaiter that you destroyed on your Baruntse btw) and the Baruntse will not deflect a crampon point either. Most every leather mtn boot will. Crampons will easily punch right through the soft and foam backed Baruntse and Spantik shells. That is not a boot failure but a user failure. Catching that soft and rather fragfile "gaiter"/cuff on some seriously nasty broken brush and ripping them through aint the boots fault. More like operator error which might result in a "WTF?".

 

Been many a Spantik and Baruntse used hard and totally worn out without that gaiter failing.

 

Baruntse is a great boot when used as intended...as are the Spantiks. And I can understand your frustration with a destroyed boot. But let's be honest here...it aint the boots fault.

 

Well at least in my opinion, it aint the boot's fault.

[CaleHoopes]

I'm absolutely in support of Dane's comments.... especially about the nylon cuff. I don't think of this as a very important part of the boot to be honest. It works ok and it is easily ripped.

 

I've done a fair amount of bushwhacking in mine and haven't damaged the boots.

 

One thing I will say, I've found Sportiva stuff to be great, but not super durable in my opinion. However, I understand what I need out of the boot and my Baruntse's have performed wonderfully.

 

I also agree, it ain't the boots fault. Sorry dude.

[Alan Trick]

I have a bit of sympathy for Jake in that I often find it very difficult to find information about what sorts of beatings gear can actually take. The information from most manufacturers is darn near useless.

 

For example, if I was to get a boot like the Baruntse, I would have expected that since it is a mountaineering boot it would be able to handle a reasonable crampon stabbing. I am not a fabric scientist and I only have the very vague "This is awesome and you can do anything with it" marketing to work off of.

[CaleHoopes]

Not to be a devils advocate, but do any of the boot manufacturers actually claim, on a non-plastic boot, that they are invincible to a crampon point?

[Dane]

Crampons can go through a plastic shell as well. Not as easily as they will in a Spantik or a Baruntse or heaven forbid my 6000s for sure. Just a little more difficult to be that klutzie.....BTDT however.

 

Up side? How many cracked Spantiks have you heard of? None I suspect.

 

Either way the boots don't "fail" they just get a hole in them, which may or may not leak water. Seam grip will fix the problem of a crampon puncture. It just won't be pretty. Same fix with some sewing before hand will fix Jake's boot. Nothing to keep Jake from using his WTF Baruntse's other than the bad cosmetics. If Jake can get a warrenty replacemntm good for him you. But it won't change how the boot was designed. And it won't stop brush from ripping up the fabric gaiter or crampons from punching holes in them.

[John Frieh]

Up side? How many cracked Spantiks have you heard of? None I suspect.

 

:laf: http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/04/la-sportiva-spantik.html

 

Here is a cautionary tale on the Spantik from a buddy. I mentioned the crampon fit and how the mid sole will collapse if the crampon fit is marginal.

 

Daniel Harro's comments and photos:

 

"As far as the spantiks go here is what I had to go through.

Before the resole. Obvious cracks in the toe piece.....10-15 days of use....maybe."

 

[Dane]

John........cracked shells (as the plastics were known to do) isn;t a cracked sole But point taken.

[Alan Trick]

Not to be a devils advocate, but do any of the boot manufacturers actually claim, on a non-plastic boot, that they are invincible to a crampon point?

 

As far as I know, boot manufacturers make very few solid claims about durability. This leads those of us who are not that familiar with the products to come up with guesses.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Alan Trick

[ScaredSilly]

Bummer about the boots. I have to echo Dane's comments. Over the years I have bought many boots. Most are gone but for some reason the $40 gaiters that I bought 15 years ago have survived more than one crampon rip and have saved the boot. Besides even boots with integrated gaiters just help some but not all of the crap out.

[layton]

a lot of boot threads are popping up. It seems folks are thinking a boot will improve their climbing performance. The main purpose of a pair of boots is to keep your feet from getting fucked up.

 

I doubt many top notch climber's performance on sub WI6 or M8 would be affected if you strapped an old shitty pair of boots on them that at least did the job of keeping out the elements and fit reasonably well.

 

Don' expect pick-up truck performance from a ferarri. Unless you're racing in the Grad-Prix, it's best to drive a reliable beater to work.

[KirkW]

Totally agree with the OP on this one. For what those boots cost they should be able to withstand one day of bush wacking. If they can't then wtf good are they as a climbing boot?

 

[Dane]

Kirk those boots will still easily climb anything they were ever intended for. The damage is simply cosmetic and isn't going to make a bit of difference one way tor the other and the gaiter could just as easily be fixed with a few minutes of time to spare. Not defending LS or ragging on Jake. Just trying to be reasonable here.

[bgroen]

If the fit or function of the boot was in any affected I would more sympathetic to the OP. As it is the boots are 100% usable and still hike, take a crampon, and keep feet warm/dry. Why should they be sent back?

[Jake_Gano]

I took them back to AMH, who is sending them in for warranty repair. Big props to the local guys for backing up what they sell! They indicated that they have not seen many returns on the Baruntse. The Spantiks, on the other hand, have acquired a reputation as, in their own words, a "one or two expedition" boot. Yikes.

 

In Sportiva's defense, these Baruntses are still usable. And, other than the failed fabric, I really like these boots and have found they climb and hike exceptionally well. But I don't think I'm out of line to expect better durability out of the boot. For comparison, I have a set of Scarpa Freney XTs which are built with a mostly fabric exterior. I was hesitant when I purchased them around five years ago due to concerns over the durability of the exterior. These boots have FAR EXCEEDED my expectations in terms of durability. They have taken their mileage of scree, shwhacking, getting jammed into sharp cracks, etc., and haven't shown anything in excess of normal wear. Maybe I just got spoiled, but I don't want to be preoccupied with caring for my boots in the middle of a big day.

 

When I picked up these Baruntes, I selected them over other models (most specifically the 6000s) because I thought they'd be more dummy-proof - the reliable "beater pick-up" of a boot. Their simplicity and the appearance of durability were big selling points. When I get these back, I'll keep using them for their warmth, fit, etc., but I'll have to be more cautious than I'm used to or than I'd prefer.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2012 by Jake_Gano

[RafalA]

Not sure why you guys are bushwhacking in double boots to begin with...

 

"For what those boots cost they should be able to withstand one day of bush wacking. If they can't then wtf good are they as a climbing boot?"

 

I can only presume that they climb very well, though I don't have a pair so can't tell you for certian. If you want to bushwhack, go get yourself a pair of full-leather hunting boots. They'll survive many a day trudging through bush, but won't climb worth a damn. Match the product to the intended use. I don't use my 6000s on hikes, and neither do I use my Escape hikers when I go climbing...

[wfinley]

Not sure why you guys are bushwhacking in double boots to begin with... If you want to bushwhack, go get yourself a pair of full-leather hunting boots.

Double boots are actually quite popular up here for bush whacking. Hunters - especially sheep hunters- wear them because they tend to be warmer and more durable than leathers. Plus it was -15 last weekend; leathers suck when you're slogging through snow at -15.

FWIW I was with Jake when he tore up his boots and my invernos have hardly a scratch on them. I know they're different types of boots but they also cost double what invernos cost.

[KirkW]

Not sure why you guys are bushwhacking in double boots to begin with...

 

"For what those boots cost they should be able to withstand one day of bush wacking. If they can't then wtf good are they as a climbing boot?"

 

I can only presume that they climb very well, though I don't have a pair so can't tell you for certian. If you want to bushwhack, go get yourself a pair of full-leather hunting boots. They'll survive many a day trudging through bush, but won't climb worth a damn. Match the product to the intended use. I don't use my 6000s on hikes, and neither do I use my Escape hikers when I go climbing...

 

Yeah, no shit Sherlock. Thanks for the PSA.

 

$500 climbing boots that fall apart on the approach must just be for status chasers with too much money. I'm sure they look great in the seven summits scrapbook though.