uneven half ropes

[JosephH]

The issue isn't length, the issue is uneven rope ends on rappel. Common sense can and should obviate that risk, but it still can and does happen. I don't know, but it's a total no-brainer from my perspective, but hey, that's just me.

[montypiton]

I've climbed predominantly on twin and half rope systems for about twenty-five years, and I never worry about whether the lengths match perfectly. Belaying, you're not likely to notice a six foot differential. Rapelling, if you're worried about rapping off the end, simply tie or clip the ends to your harness. Ever notice that it's not possible to feed a rope end through a belay/rappel device when that rope end is clipped or tied to you? We all will die, but none of us has to die stupid.

[bearbreeder]

The issue isn't length, the issue is uneven rope ends on rappel. Common sense can and should obviate that risk, but it still can and does happen. I don't know, but it's a total no-brainer from my perspective, but hey, that's just me.

 

again ... any rap that can be done with a 60m+58m wont be done any "safer" with 2 58m ropes ...

 

and if it cant be done because its a 60m rap and you decide to do it anyways ... 2 chopped ropes or one chopped/one unchopped ... neither are going to allow you to do it regardless

 

its simple logic ...

 

not statements made by some that ...

 

I would not cut only one rope -- every year there are numerous accidents that have to do with rappel failures of some kind. Saving $200 is not worth that risk.

 

.....

 

Two ropes of unequal length are just waiting for an unintentional disaster.

 

heres an example .... im a weak azzed climber and i bailed off the split pilar once with a 60m lead line and a 70m half rope tagline ...its 3x50m raps to the ground ... explain to me exactly how chopping 10m off my half rope will make me any safer on that rappel

[JosephH]

None of us has to, too many of us do.

[genepires]

Again ... Explain to me exactly how having 2 58m ropes is safer than 60m + 58m on the same rappel

 

The exact situation where the 58s would save you but the 58+60 wont since yr claiming its "safer"

 

The degree of safeness is in the order of .1% safer. cause the situation is so specific that it is easily remedied.

 

you want an example, here is one. Lets make the difference in lengths longer to illustrate the situation.

-Lets use your 60 and 70 m rope differential.

- you forget to tie knots in the end of the ropes.

-it is a 65m rappel.

-you look down see one end on the ground and mistakenly think it is ok to go

- you never notice that the 60m rope end it not touching and it goes through your brake hand

-you fall 15 ft to ground or farther

 

Three mistakes (no knot, no visual that both ends on ground and not being hyper vigilant about the rope ends) to make it happen. Unlikely but possible. I know because I have done the 3 mistakes and have fallen 15 feet.

 

Now take that to this current situation. With unequal ends, there is a chance that one end will be on the ground and the other not. So you may see one end on the ground and assume that both are. Granted it will be a 6ft fall at worst but in my case, my 15 ft fall lead to another 20 ft fall below the belay ledge. So the 6ft may lead to a longer fall.

 

SO how safer is it to have equal lengths? maybe 1% but still safer and requires multiple mistakes to be made.

[bearbreeder]

The degree of safeness is in the order of .1% safer. cause the situation is so specific that it is easily remedied.

 

you want an example, here is one. Lets make the difference in lengths longer to illustrate the situation.

-Lets use your 60 and 70 m rope differential.

- you forget to tie knots in the end of the ropes.

-it is a 65m rappel.

-you look down see one end on the ground and mistakenly think it is ok to go

- you never notice that the 60m rope end it not touching and it goes through your brake hand

-you fall 15 ft to ground or farther

 

Three mistakes (no knot, no visual that both ends on ground and not being hyper vigilant about the rope ends) to make it happen. Unlikely but possible. I know because I have done the 3 mistakes and have fallen 15 feet.

 

Now take that to this current situation. With unequal ends, there is a chance that one end will be on the ground and the other not. So you may see one end on the ground and assume that both are. Granted it will be a 6ft fall at worst but in my case, my 15 ft fall lead to another 20 ft fall below the belay ledge. So the 6ft may lead to a longer fall.

 

SO how safer is it to have equal lengths? maybe 1% but still safer and requires multiple mistakes to be made.

 

absolutely and utterly incorrect as you arent going to be able to make a 65m rap with 2 60 m ropes ... vs a 60+70 regardless ... its NOT THE SAME RAP youre comparing it to

 

there is absolutely NO RAPPEL that is safer with 2 60m that cannot be done as safely with a 60m+70m

 

what you are failling to understand is that we are not talking about the OP doing 59 or 60m raps with a 2 58m vs a 60m+58m ...

 

we are talking about 58m or less raps ... because if its more than 58m youre buying a new rope

 

so explain to me exactly how exactly its "safer" again

[NoahT]

You're so intent on making your point, your reading comprehension has checked out for the day. No one is saying you can do 60m raps with a 58m rope. Duh. Genes example is a 65m rap with a 70 and 60.

 

Pretend, for a mInute, you don't know how long the rap is, because you forgot your beta-filled guidebook in your roamIng dogs crag-pack at the base.

 

You asked for an example. The not-so-hard to understand example is you see one end of the rope on the ground, and assume both are. You are wrong, and rap off the end of the short rope. You can fill in your own numbers. You fall either a short...or long...distance.

 

This is fairly easy to picture. The specific numbers and lengths don't matter.

[bearbreeder]

You're so intent on making your point, your reading comprehension has checked out for the day. No one is saying you can do 60m raps with a 58m rope. Duh. Genes example is a 65m rap with a 70 and 60.

 

Pretend, for a mInute, you don't know how long the rap is, because you forgot your beta-filled guidebook in your roamIng dogs crag-pack at the base.

 

You asked for an example. The not-so-hard to understand example is you see one end of the rope on the ground, and assume both are. You are wrong, and rap off the end of the short rope. You can fill in your own numbers. You fall either a short...or long...distance.

 

This is fairly easy to picture. The specific numbers and lengths don't matter.

 

yes it does ... because in this thread we are talking about chopping a 60m rope to a 58m ... which in no way will make you any "safer"

 

lets make it absolutely and utterly clear .. for the OP chopping his 60m to 58m will NOT make him any safer on rappel vs not chopping it ...

 

does anyone disagree with that at all ....

 

think about what the OP is asking ...

 

as to not knowing the length of the rap, etc, etc ... a shorter rope wont help you anymore than a longer rope ... period ... if you cant see BOTH ends on the ground and you ASSUME without basic safety precautions ... i kindly suggest you get back to the basics ... rather than "depending" on perfectly even rope lengths (which no two different ropes from the factory are exact) ... one of these days youll be rapping on a rope you dont know or forgot is chopped and youll be screwed regardless

 

 

 

 

[Redoubt]

think about what the OP is asking ...

YOU think about it. The OP is just asking if he should cut his damn rope. Sheesh!

[Dane]

Chop the long one. Make them the same length. BTDT..and that was my anser. Happy with it. What were 60s are now 55+ somethings. Haven't noticed since. But pain in the ass till I did make them the same length.

[Buckaroo]

Don't chop the long one. As soon as you can afford it, buy another 60m, use the 58m on climbs that don't have full 60m pitches, or as a glacier rope.

[genepires]

opinions are like......well you know. And I got one of each.

 

I would suggest to buy double ropes in pairs. Have them the same age and previous use is better than having an old a new one. Now if the "old" rope was 6 months old, then it would not matter.

[Dane]

I would suggest to buy double ropes in pairs. Have them the same age and previous use is better than having an old a new one.

 

Agreed. Doubles don't last very long anyway. Twins less so. In my case on a new "pair", one was obviously closer to 70m rope and the other a 60m rope or suppose to be. But in the first season of use it was also obvious one was a lot longer (more than 2m) than the other rope. After a week on Canadian ice I finally, sat down at home and ran them both through my hands and chopped the excess to make them the same length. Never happy about chopping ropes but seemed like a no brainier to me once I identified the problem. Having a overly long 1/2 rope seemed like a problem waiting to bite me in the ass on even easy rappels. Annoying on belays as well.

 

I used those ropes for 2 more seasons and did lots of rappels with them. Some hanging stance to hanging stance. Although I do suspect we added a few extra V threads because of the odd rope size. Still not sure what the length of either rope really was but I never noticed the difference or the length once they were cut and the same length.