Vibram XS Edge vs. Stealth Rubber

[telemarker]

Has anyone had any issues with the Vibram XS edge/grip rubber wearing out much faster than the 5.10 stealth rubber? I seem to be resoling my shoes about every 3 months. Granted, I climb about 5 to 6 days a week outdoors, but since I switched from 5.10 shoes to La Sportiva, it seems the XS vibram is a much softer rubber that is great for sensitivity and grip, but bad for durability.

 

Just wondering if any other Sportiva users have had the same issue...

 

Thanks

[Hall]

Hey John,

I too have burned through LS rubber in about 6 months on 2 different pairs. I have been using LS shoes exclusively for about 12 years, and it does seem that the previous generations of rubber did last longer. However, (lack of) softness (stickyness) was the general complaint about the old LS rubber. A decade ago many people resoled their Muiras with Stealth ASAP. It seems that LS has come around to soft rubber, maybe a bit too far.

[CaleHoopes]

I burned through the LS rubber that came on my Mythos during 6 months of climbing IN THE GYM. Opened up a nice hole in the toe of both shoes with a bunch of poor climbing technique on my part.

 

Fixed my technique.

 

Went to Cascade Cobbler and resoled with 4.2mm Stealth Onyxx. They've held up for most of the year so far.

[Lodestone]

After having roughly half a dozen pairs of shoes with XS Edge rubber I've noticed that it seems to be less durable (i.e. wears out faster) and without a doubt a little less sticky than Stealth C4. The result? I have all my La Sportivas resoled with C4 rubber once the original rubber is toast.

 

For what it's worth, Onyxx rubber is slightly harder than C4 (and less sticky in my experience). That's a trade that many people are happy to make.

 

 

 

Chad

 

 

[telemarker]

hmmm....less sticky than C4. Interesting. I'm trying to compare the two, alternating between my Katana's and Anasazi's. It's probably too subtle for me to notice, but to be honest, the stealth rubber does seem "grippier", but less sensitive than the softer vibram xs.

[BirdDog]

I had a pair of old shoes resoled with XS - they sucked! Really, could stand on anything friction wise. Had C4 put back on, awesome!

[Lodestone]

hmmm....less sticky than C4. Interesting. I'm trying to compare the two, alternating between my Katana's and Anasazi's. It's probably too subtle for me to notice, but to be honest, the stealth rubber does seem "grippier", but less sensitive than the softer vibram xs.

 

What type of Anasazi's? Most come with Onyxx from the factory (LV's, hightops and Blancos come with C4).

 

 

Chad

[telemarker]

They're the Anasazi velcro, bought last year so I'm pretty sure they came with onyx rubber.

[obwan]

hmmm....less sticky than C4. Interesting. I'm trying to compare the two, alternating between my Katana's and Anasazi's. It's probably too subtle for me to notice, but to be honest, the stealth rubber does seem "grippier", but less sensitive than the softer vibram xs.

 

C4 is the only way to go and is more "grippier" - if you want sensitivity, there are 2 thickness's in the C4 (thick and thin). I've put the thinner one on my Anasazi's, and they work great!

[hangontight]

I also use the thin C4 and really like the feel of it. They have held up well so far.

[Chris Graham]

Xs Edge sucks! It is insensitive, slick as balogna tires on snow, and is only marginally stiffer on edge than the old xs grip and grip 2. Scarpa is now introducing it into their Instinct line and I am pissed. Why f*ck with a good thing like that?

[Jens]

In warm weather, the XS rubber is better than any 5.10 rubber by a mile. In cold temps,the 5.10 rubber definitely smears better but does not edge nearly as well.

 

 

 

 

[Lodestone]

In warm weather, the XS rubber is better than any 5.10 rubber by a mile. In cold temps,the 5.10 rubber definitely smears better but does not edge nearly as well.

 

 

 

I don't think you know what you are talking about. What leads me to believe this? You are not comparing types of rubber, just brands. 5.10 currently uses at least four different types of rubber for their various climbing shoes models. La Sportiva uses at least two types of rubber. What are you comparing, Onyxx, C4, Mystique, Edge, Grip....? If you are going to throw around generalizations at least state what you are comparing.

 

 

Chad

[Jens]

In warm weather, the XS rubber is better than any 5.10 rubber by a mile. In cold temps,the 5.10 rubber definitely smears better but does not edge nearly as well.

 

 

 

I don't think you know what you are talking about. What leads me to believe this? You are not comparing types of rubber, just brands. 5.10 currently uses at least four different types of rubber for their various climbing shoes models. La Sportiva uses at least two types of rubber. What are you comparing, Onyxx, C4, Mystique, Edge, Grip....? If you are going to throw around generalizations at least state what you are comparing.

 

 

Chad

As for all the 5.10 rubbers,I've used stealth 1 stealth 2 (back in the day), C4, Stealth HF, and Oynx. I will admit, I have not used mystique. Only Charles Cole has the true recipes...many say the original stealth 2 was reincarnated as HF.

 

On the vibram side of things I have used xsv, xsgrip, and xsedge....oh and on much smaller holds and/or steeper real estate than the routes of your likely grades, although I've never seen you climb so I shouldn't make that judgement.

[RuMR]

Oh snap...

 

Point Jens!

 

Personally, C4 destroys all other rubbers (both 5.10's Mystique and Onyxx, and Sportiva's various vibrams)...that is my opinion only. I've used it so much i know exactly what to expect and my confidence is high... Predictability if you will...Your mileage may vary.

 

Jens is a sportiva guy so he probably is doing the same thing as me...he likes what he knows...

[billcoe]

Well, it's wintertime, so that means it's time to argue about shoes, shoe rubber and bolts. Here's my thing. I don't have anywhere close to Jens mileage or grades, but I found something interesting last trip to Yosemite.

 

1st) Having previously compared Evolv to Stealth @ 5 years back (I don't even recall what they called that Stealth at the time Chad), I thought that for Yosemite granite, Evolv had a slight edge. Miniscule to the point of absurd slight, but it was there. Both for smears and edges. Seemed to last longer as well. BUT FOR BASALT AROUND HERE, THE EVOLV STUCK MUCH BETTER WHEN IT WAS WET. MUCH MUCH BETTER. So it should come as no surprise that I resole with Evolv via Yosemite bum. They do a kick assed job. And in the rain and damp, which seems so common to me, they do work better. I have 2 pairs of shoes that are on their 6th resole, and a bunch more on resoles and they all get evolv. I kept seeing folks resoling with Stealth, TC Pro owners too, so my assumption was XS was worse than Stalth which I knew to be worse than Evolv. In fact, my thoughts that Evolv was the best got reinforced on some tests Spadout posted of a a physicist who ran tests of the rubbers on granite - the Evolv took the sticky title.

 

However, last trip to Yosemite, May, I took my TC Pros that still had the XS vibram soles. I was planning to get stealth on them based on what Chad, Timetravelr, Joseph and many others had said about Stealth outperforming the XS.

 

So I matched the Pros up to my beloved Evolvs. Left foot XS, right foot Evolv. I already new that the Evolv was the best rubber, I had proven it to myself and then later saw independent testing. I only wanted to see how bad the XS sucked in comparison, I already knew they sucked. So the bouncing ball is Evolv>Stealth>XS. In my mind anyway.

 

Imagine my shock and disbelief. Against all I knew for a fact - the winner and better rubber, not by much, but the winner was the XS on the TC pro. Not the Evolv.

 

 

[JonNelson]

 

So I matched the Pros up to my beloved Evolvs. Left foot XS, right foot Evolv. I already new that the Evolv was the best rubber, I had proven it to myself and then later saw independent testing. I only wanted to see how bad the XS sucked in comparison, I already knew they sucked. So the bouncing ball is Evolv>Stealth>XS. In my mind anyway.

 

Imagine my shock and disbelief. Against all I knew for a fact - the winner and better rubber, not by much, but the winner was the XS on the TC pro. Not the Evolv.

 

 

I think your test is better than the one you mentioned by the physicist (because the latter involved such low loads), but there is one possible issue.

 

Your left foot might just smear better than your right. Could be an important factor when the measured difference was "not by much", as you found.

 

As we know, footwork is super important for climbing, and our left sides are never the same as our right,whether we are talking about our hands or our feet.

 

Jon

[bwrts]

five ten

 

[Drederek]

Perhaps the physicist should have tested at a wide range of loads, maybe the best rubber is different for very light and very, um, nevermind.

[billcoe]

 

 

THREAD REVIVAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Damn, lots of super strong climbers posted up there in 2013. Rudys son Drew must be on the (now delayed) Olympic team if not injured?  Hey Rudy, (RUMR) wondering what rubber your boy is climbing on? Since your post upthread yer boy has become a top climber in the US. (if winning comps is a thing https://drewruana.com/). But I know he's climbed outside so that counts, even if sponsored. 

 

Anyway, with the virus, I figure its a good time to support the resolers who will need the work. Not that my 6 pairs of trash I rounded up and I'm about to send out will keep anyone's lights on for long but they can use the work. I did a search and wham, this old thread popped up. Stealth isn't getting out to them these days since Adidas bought 5.10. Vibram XS Grip for the win? 

[Rad]

Drew is certainly a star, but he's not on the Olympic team.

Nathanial Coleman and Colin Duffy qualified for the two US men's olympic slots and there's a max of two slots per country.

Brooke Rabatou and Kyra Condie qualified on the women's side. 

Sadly, we're not likely to see any climbing comps anytime soon.