Is that a cam up my ass?!!??

[A_Little_Off_Route]

I was practicing making a belay the other day and when I sat down on the ledge, I noticed that it was darn difficult to sit on a bunch of big cams.

 

It seems that most people rack small gear at the front of the harness and large gear at the back. What do you do about sitting on a small ledge with big cams on your rear loops? It was mighty uncomfortable.

 

Off_Route

[Sol]

really?

 

[billcoe]

I was practicing making a belay the other day and when I sat down on the ledge, I noticed that it was darn difficult to sit on a bunch of big cams.

 

It seems that most people rack small gear at the front of the harness and large gear at the back. What do you do about sitting on a small ledge with big cams on your rear loops? It was mighty uncomfortable.

 

Off_Route

 

Today I was out at the cliff, and I sat down on a fist sized rock that was on the ground. So I moved the rock and it became much softer.

[Rad]

So tempting...but I won't spray in the newbies pool.

 

Maybe read your own post and answer your own question.

[A_Little_Off_Route]

So tempting...but I won't spray in the newbies pool.

 

Maybe read your own post and answer your own question.

 

I've noticed that rock climbing is really not friendly to their less experienced participants. It's so different on the rock climbing forums compared to say, the sailing forums I frequent. I find it rather disturbing that the biggest insult in rock climbing is to refer to someone as new. Everybody was a n00b once right?

 

So on a small ledge what do you do? I'm not talking about one where there is room to move the cams aside. Do you not rack the big ones in the back, or what?

 

Off_Route

[Sol]

just move the cams out of the way

[denalidave]

just move the cams out of the way

Or be sure to lube them well!

[A_Little_Off_Route]

Just move the cams out of the way.

 

I've noticed that rock climbing is really not friendly to their less experienced participants. It's so different on the rock climbing forums compared to say, the sailing forums I frequent. I find it rather disturbing that the biggest insult in rock climbing is to refer to someone as new. Everybody was a n00b once right?

 

So on a small ledge what do you do? I'm not talking about one where there is room to move the cams aside. Do you not rack the big ones in the back, or what?

 

Off_Route

 

Am I the only one that's ever belayed off of a 12" ledge before?

Edited July 22, 2012 by A_Little_Off_Route

[Buckaroo]

I've noticed that rock climbing is really not friendly to their less experienced participants. It's so different on the rock climbing forums compared to say, the sailing forums I frequent. I find it rather disturbing that the biggest insult in rock climbing is to refer to someone as new. Everybody was a n00b once right?

 

So on a small ledge what do you do? I'm not talking about one where there is room to move the cams aside. Do you not rack the big ones in the back, or what?

 

Off_Route

 

Sailors are pansies who don't keep their gumbies in line. Climbers don't put up with gumbies, they give them the beat down until they learn not to ask stupid gumby questions. (JK!)

 

The title of your post might lead someone to believe you are trolling anyway so maybe people are not really dissing you, they are just trolling you back.

 

IF there really was a cam up your a** you would be at the hospital having it removed, not trolling on the internet with stupid gumby questions.

 

I'll answer the question though because I like newbies, I used to be one, I take them climbing and answer their questions no matter what. Small cams in front cuz they're easier to see there. Small cams get crowded together and are easier to separate and grab in front. The big cams are easy to grab regardless so put them in back where it's harder to get to.

 

Also because when climbing steep ground you want to hug the wall to keep your weight over your feet. If there's a number 4 Camalot on the front of your chest it pushes you back and onto your arms which get pumped out and fail, then you fall and can get maimed or killed. Which would really suck because then you wouldn't be able to climb anymore and you wouldn't post on CC where you could get trolled by more experienced climbers, much to their enjoyment.

 

If you have problems with the rack getting in the way, take if off and clip it out of the way on the anchor. I do that all the time just for the comfort even when there's plenty of room.

 

It can also be considered poor form to lead to a belay ledge and have any large pieces left. If you can't place the #3 or #4 (or larger) Camalot on the pitch you should have left it with the follower to carry. Some climbs have just a couple pitches where you need big stuff, on the other pitches there's no reason for the leader to carry that weight. Of course this doesn't apply if you can't see the entire pitch and/or don't know the climb that well.

[A_Little_Off_Route]

Thanks buck. I hadn't thought of it from the angle of intentionally using up the big gear. Makes sense, and is exactly why I asked this kind of question.

 

The title was used to add some levity and humor, and I'm not sure why it would be seen as a troll post. In my experience posting on forums (anyone remember bulletin boards and 14.4 modems?) troll posts are usually when people are trying to piss other people off. If my post looked like a troll post then I offer my apologies for that!

 

I'll ask a better n00b question next time. Promise. Thanks for the answer though....

 

Off_Route

[Buckaroo]

read it again, I edited and added more info

[Buckaroo]

Some climbs will have one pitch with a section that only protects with your big piece. On other pitches on the climb if you don't leave it with the follower you try to place it early, choosing the big pieces over the small early to get rid of the weight.

[ivan]

run it out!!!

[Rad]

So tempting...but I won't spray in the newbies pool.

 

Maybe read your own post and answer your own question.

 

I've noticed that rock climbing is really not friendly to their less experienced participants.

 

Not true. You've got some very patient people posting here. I've provided constructive feedback to new climbers in the past, as have many others, and we will do so in the future.

 

At the same time, not everything should be learned from internet forums. Some things are best learned by doing. You're certainly more likely to remember lessons when you make mistakes and figure out how to fix them yourself. Obviously, we don't want those lessons to involve serious injury or death for anyone involved, but a little discomfort is OK.

 

A few lessons I learned this way:

 

- Keep your testicles AWAY from your legloops!

- Use long draws on wandering routes over complex features to avoid horrendous ropedrag.

- Don't glissade with your only car key in your pocket where it might fall out.

- Don't reach up and place your trad pro in the best/only hand or foot holds.

- Use your camera as a navigational tool.

- Don't use a non-locking device on your harness to belay heavy followers who are likely to fall or you'll be squeezed

- Don't rely on a space bivy to replace a sleeping bag on a multi-day adventure.

-Don't carry gear all bunched together on a gear sling over your shoulder when you try to climb a squeeze chimney.

- Don't try to drive to Canada in your partners' girlfriend's car that he borrowed without her permission.

- Don't "bivy" in your vehicle with the windows rolled up.

- Don't eat greasy chicken and slimy potato salad the night before a grade 5 rock route.

- Don't descend the spires gully in Yosemite on a moonless night without a headlamp.

- Don't bushwhack through CA manzanita in your shorts.

- Don't scratch your poison ivy.

 

you get the idea.

 

"Improvise, adapt, and overcome". Was that Schwarzenegger or Dirty Harry or some other movie star?

 

Regarding your cams and your post, I bet you can think of several solutions to try, many of which take only seconds to test. A few:

- Hang the offending gear on the anchor

- Move the offending gear to your front loops.

- Try to place the offending gear during the pitch or at the belay

- Learn to read the topo and/or route better so you don't carry the kitchen sink when you lead.

- Rig your anchor so you stand instead of sit on the ledge

 

Take charge of your own fate. In addition to the reasons above, well-meaning internet posters will sometimes give you advice that is completely wrong.

 

Good luck.

[christophbenells]

rock climbing is a test of human ingenuity as much as a physical workout. many things you just gotta figure out with your brain...

[Buckaroo]

- Don't try to drive to Canada in your partners' girlfriend's car that he borrowed without her permission.

ROTFLMFAO!!!

[Ed_Hobbick]

Where was this 12" ledge and on what route?

[burchey]

Where was this 12" ledge and on what route?

Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like it matters!!!!!!

 

 

On a serious note - little insights like leaving larger gear not immediately needed with a follower, etc are very useful to those learning this Trad game - nothing finer than learning from the (mis)adventures of those more experienced that come before and are willing to share.

[Pete_H]

But somehow people were able to learn this stuff before it was possible to ask stupid questions on internet climbing sites.

[G-spotter]

If you are unable to move your cams out of the way of your ass it's probably because your ass is too fat. Try losing weight.

[counterfeitfake]

How can you really be asking so many ridiculous questions? What is your deal.

[ACK]

Oh you guys are brutal.

 

Hey, "A_Little_Off_Route" and other newer trad climber, here are some things learned from my experiences.(I started climbing in 1990 and guided and instructed in AZ and CA in the mid '90's.)

 

1. Whichever system you get dialed into, stay with it so that you have a system and a habit.

Why?

 

If you’re in a finger crack and pumped, whatis the most natural gear grab location off your harness loops, more in front, the side, the rear? Sometimes there is no time or no state of mind to think about the small cams are on your rack. If you have a fist/foot crack you have more purchase on the rock and most likely would be less desperate to get a larger cam off your gear loops (harness(or chest for a longer route with a 70m rope)).

 

2. The other thing to think about is the type of climbing… more than vertical, vertical, less than vertical, slab, small edges, bigger ledges.

Why?

If you have a bunch longer slings, quick draws, cams, nuts (make that the passive cam device kind), it’s possible to get stuff caught in a crack, under a chicken head, under a foot, knee, etc, and literally trap yourself from making the next move. So, you might want to have the longer stuff in the rear gear loops.

 

3. Also consider how much gear you have around your front belay carabiner, belay device, etc., the less crap the better.

Why?

People have unclipped themselves from their anchor, as well as clipped a rappel device into something other than a harness. (I’ve seen both cases while climbing in popular areas in AZ.) So, again longer more complicated pieces in the rear to keep the front clear.

 

I’m sure you get the picture by now.

 

[A_Little_Off_Route]

How can you really be asking so many ridiculous questions? What is your deal.

 

Why do you reply to this thread if you think it's worthless? Didn't your mother tell you that if you don't have anything nice to say..... geez... this is supposed to be the only spray-free place on CC.com

 

 

Why so many stupid questions? Partially to generate traffic. I'm currently days away from expecting my first baby and so I can't really be out on the rock 5 pitches up, away from cell reception, learning it all in person right now. Instead I come to learn some stuff from these forums and I find active topics much more interesting than just searching old threads and mining them for info (which I also do). One of my issues is that I've learned most all of what I know following guides for 4 years on rock and have only now started reading books and asking theory questions in the net.

 

Where are the small ledges you ask? Arapiles, where I did almost all of my climbing for the first 4 years I climbed. It seemed that half the belay ledges were tiny. Maybe the sandstone and granite you have up here never have that problem.

 

Off_Route

Edited July 24, 2012 by A_Little_Off_Route

[counterfeitfake]

You move the cams out of the way of your ass. Any child could have answered that, your question was idiotic. Your others have been pretty bad, too.

 

I appreciate the idea that the newbies forum should be spray-free, but you're wasting our time. You said you learned to climb 20 years ago. And you have a baby. You're not going anywhere. Come back when you're serious.

[counterfeitfake]

I've noticed that rock climbing is really not friendly to their less experienced participants.

 

Bullshit. I spend hundreds of hours every year instructing beginners. Nobody has ever asked me anything as stupid as "how do I not sit on my cams?" If you lack common sense to this degree, I would advise you that climbing is not a sport you should be involved in.