Islam

[Greg_W]

quote:

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Originally posted by sexual chocolate:

But I also think that you are overlooking all the benefits you have received in your lifetime; the benefits of family, the benefits of education, the benefits of being in this country. If you can see these as being benefits, I wonder why you wouldn't be more inclined to want to share these benefits with others? Don't you think that others want education, stability, a decent income?

 

My fear is that in a capitalist society, everyone is made into an enemy of each other, because capitalism necessarily commodifies resources, creating the appearance that there isn't enough to go around. Then we need to fight for a little slice of the pie, and when we get it, we become protective, and angry if anyone tries to take it away.

Think about the insecurity in the US today. Recession; millions unemployed, with the ones lucky enough to have unemployment benefits fearing the end of them very soon; millions homeless; 50 million without health insurance? Almost a fifth of our population? And while this happens, the richest are enjoying tax-cuts?

 

I don't think life needs to be a fight. But I'm afraid that's exactly what capitalism promotes.

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I have received help from my family to get my education and took out a student loan. I intend to help my children acheive their educational goals. Regardless of this help, I had to CHOOSE to take the path I took. If I decided to be a construction worker (no shame in it), my parents would have taken the money they would have used for my education and spent it elsewhere. Bottom line is, it was my CHOICE. Maybe others want an education and those other things; if so, they should work for them. Poor people go to college all the time - student loans, grants, work programs. It can be done.

 

My fear is that in a capitalist society, everyone is made into an enemy of each other, because capitalism necessarily commodifies resources, creating the appearance that there isn't enough to go around.

 

This, actually, isn't a tenet of capitalist theory. The beauty of a free capitalist society is the realization that one can freely associate with others to mutual benefit. I see business relationships as a commodity; I guess you could call it networking. I foster many relationships/associations with people in my industry and others. The goal is that at some point any one of these associations will bear profitable fruit for both parties, or a third party. Say I have a friend/acquaintance who sells welding equipment. Say I meet someone else who's company buys welding machines and is looking for new equipment. I hook these two up and hopefully we all three can benefit.

 

The theory that "there isn't enough to go around" is something created by those who wish to foment the 'class-warfare' debate to their benefit. There is no limit to wealth creation, there is no set amount of U.S. dollars that exists.

 

Greg W

[Greg_W]

quote:

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Originally posted by sexual chocolate:

BTW, your family isn't free-loading off you, are they? Hmmmm....

 

Put 'em to work!

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No, my wife has a job and pays half the bills. Plus, I receive other benefits from my wife . My daughter is 3 and is my responsibility until she can go out on her own; I invest in her by teaching her to be self-reliant and make smart choices in her life. See, it's a vicious circle.

 

Greg W

[Greg_W]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim:

Sometimes bad things happen to good, hard-working people. They get seriously hurt, have a mental illness, get sick. They loose their job. It could happen to you or your family. What then? Tough luck? The supports to help some people are being tossed aside in favor of increasing supports to the upper class.

 

I personally know a logger who had his back crushed by a bad tree felling. His family is struggling, medical bills, physical therapy, drugs. He's the least person to expect a handout. I would argue we need to give him a helping hand, and let him live a dignified life with proper medical treatment. And guess what? His social security disability and medicare doesn't cut it. When I see him over the holiday I'll convey your message of "Don't like where you are - change it".

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Do you know what used to happen to people who had such pitfalls? Their families and their churches used to take care of them. Where are those institutions now? I personally buy more beef than I need so that I can help my mother-in-law (and some of you dirtbag climbers) with some good red meat. Not much, but it helps supplement her small income (and JayB will keep climbing with me )

 

Greg W

[Jim]

This guy has a strong extened family, they're there for him, and it's a big stretch for them. I just doesn't seem fair that people on the bottom like this are ignored while the elites are getting more and more tax breaks.

 

I would argue that the government used to do more in the past. There was more of a balance in society between the wealthy and the middle and lower classes. And with the greater disproportions come concentrations of political power and more of a selfish attitude. Now government is more under the thumb of the elites of corportaions and wealth. I don't think anyone would argue that the first line of defense for catostrophic events is the family. But I think you're ignoring some of the social and political changes that have occured in the past 25 years that have been redistributing wealth up, with inverse consequences at bottom.

[sexual_chocolate]

The theory that "there isn't enough to go around" is something created by those who wish to foment the 'class-warfare' debate to their benefit. There is no limit to wealth creation, there is no set amount of U.S. dollars that exists.

 

Ah, so money DOES grow on trees! How new-age of you!

 

Hey Greg, capitalism only exists because there IS a limited amount of the medium of exchange. When the medium of exchange gluts the system, it makes it worthless. Inflation. And right now, the medium of exchange is mainly in the hands (bank accounts, portfolios, assets) of a very select few, which doesn't create stability in any society, especially when the chips are down, as in the current recession.

 

I'm very interested in where this is all gonna lead to. My guess is that it will follow an historic pattern: Mad economic growth, deregulation, amassment of the wealth in the hands of a few, followed by the inevitable crash, societal destabilization, mass unrest, followed by government intervention in the form of increased social program funding and regulatory behaviour.

[Greg_W]

SC - supply and demand, 'nough said. You are right that goods are devalued when there is a glut, but if more goods enter the marketplace to satisfy growing demand then there is balance.

[sexual_chocolate]

quote:

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Originally posted by Greg W:

SC - supply and demand, 'nough said. You are right that goods are devalued when there is a glut, but if more goods enter the marketplace to satisfy growing demand then there is balance.

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I was actually referring to cash, dinero, dollars, bread, "the root of all evil". For it to serve as a medium of exchange, it HAS to exist in limited quantity.

 

Plus, your above equation has a strange problem- you correctly assert that glut lowers the value of a given commodity, but for that value to be restored, the amount of the commodity in the marketplace must lessen, or the demand must go up. You are assuming in your argument that demand will go up?

[sexual_chocolate]

quote:

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Originally posted by Greg W:

SC - supply and demand, 'nough said. You are right that goods are devalued when there is a glut, but if more goods enter the marketplace to satisfy growing demand then there is balance.

---

I was actually referring to cash, dinero, dollars, bread, "the root of all evil". For it to serve as a medium of exchange, it HAS to exist in a limited quantity.

 

Plus, your above equation has a strange problem- you correctly assert that glut lowers the value of a given commodity, but for that value to be restored, the amount of the commodity in the marketplace must lessen, or the demand must go up. You are assuming in your argument that demand will go up?

[Greg_W]

Look, dude. My head is starting to hurt. It works with cash, too. If more goods are created and sold, more cash enters the marketplace, right? But more goods have entered the marketplace as well, so there isn't an imbalance...head is really hurting now. My thinking here (could be wrong) is that as long as there isn't an imbalance of cash to goods, the dollar won't devalue. It's when one or the other is in greater supply than the other is when there is a devaluation. Someone help, head pounding...I'm going home.

 

Greg W

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Take an Excedrin and deal with it, you pussy!

[allthumbs]

DFA, remove that nasty signature before I come down there and stuff a potato in your exhaust pipe.

[Dave_Schuldt]

Awsome auto sig, DFA. It fits perfectly. Poor trask will just have to deal with it!!!

[allthumbs]

DS = moron

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

quote:

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Originally posted by trask:

DFA, remove that nasty signature before I come down there and stuff a potato in your exhaust pipe.

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What, you don't like Gang Starr? You obviously "have no regard for real hip-hop" as the GURU would say. Tsk tsk!

[allthumbs]

The vomit one blew chunks.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

 

The vomit sig was only in response to your own cruel and slanderous signature. Since you removed said affront to DFA's sensibilities, the Doctor has removed the (rather accurate) description of you relative to vomit.

[allthumbs]

I'm sorry about that signature. I won't use the others I had in mind:

 

dfa=fag

dfa=frenchman

dfa=moron

dfa=............well, you get the point.

 

I just won't post that.

[Fairweather]

quote:

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Originally posted by sexual chocolate:

 

I'm very interested in where this is all gonna lead to. My guess is that it will follow an historic pattern: Mad economic growth, deregulation, amassment of the wealth in the hands of a few, followed by the inevitable crash, societal destabilization, mass unrest, followed by government intervention in the form of increased social program funding and regulatory behaviour.[/QB]

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....."behaviour"......hmmm....I think Sexual Chocolate and JGowans are the same person.

[allthumbs]

[sexual_chocolate]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing:

What, you don't like Gang Starr? You obviously "have no regard for real hip-hop" as the GURU would say. Tsk tsk![/QB]

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Gang Starr is NOT hip-hop, man. He has so co-opted the medium for his own enrichment.

 

Thelonius Monk is WAY more hip-hop than Gang Starr could ever hope to be.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

 

Didn't we have this discussion already, but about punk rock and not hip hop? You're the Dwayner of music, SC.

 

All the same, as DFA has been looking to expand the music collection to include more jazz, can you recommend some good Monk?

[JGowans]

No, SC and JGowans aren't one in the same. Although if SC were actually Cameron Diaz then I can see how two might become one. so to speak.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

quote:

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Originally posted by sexual chocolate:

Gang Starr is NOT hip-hop, man. He has so co-opted the medium for his own enrichment.

 

Thelonius Monk is WAY more hip-hop than Gang Starr could ever hope to be.

---

"they give you wack contracts

and try to make you go pop

'cause they have no regard

for real hip-hop"

 

"Suckers wanna rhyme cause they're eager to find

the secret behind the way that I stomp all comp

Just like a Timberland it's the Guru and Premier

It's them again droppin the fly tracks

and taking things over and never selling out

cause I'm the hardcore composer"

 

Don't front on the GURU, holmes.

[sexual_chocolate]

Hey, check out anything before his White House performance. I especially like Thelonius Himself, just him and a piano. There's also this cool big-band affair, Thelonius Sphere Monk, Monk's Blues.

 

So hip-hop, yet so punk!

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

quote:

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Originally posted by sexual chocolate:

Hey, check out anything before his White House performance. I especially like Thelonius Himself, just him and a piano. There's also this cool big-band affair, Thelonius Sphere Monk, Monk's Blues.

 

So hip-hop, yet so punk!

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Shit! Is the big-band album 'Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Monk'? 'Cause DFA was up in Seattle last weekend, and, whilst browsing Bop Street records' stacks of vinyl, came across the aforementioned for a mere 13 bucks, but didn't buy it, not knowing what to expect, beyond Mr. Monk and a big band.