Dear Mr. Ex President Clinton:

[gregm]

[freeclimb9]

"more of us out there"? What group contitutes "us". The non-factual, cut-and-paste post by Son of Caveman suggests the group clings to past perceived wrongs and perpetuates inflammatory untruths. Where are your anti-abortion and anti-embryonic stem-cell rants? Don't pretend your doing any favors for the conservative movement by being idiots.

[Jim]

Left, right, center. Let's not let logic enter the discussion.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

"Its amusing to see the responce from the limp dicks out there. If anyone grinds into their agenda they squeal like little piggies."

 

Such withering criticisms you levy against the bleeding hearts! Thank goodness none of your beloved right-wing brethren are squealing reactionaries! How embarrassing it would be if you, too, lost your shit every time some hack poked a rhetorical stick in the all-seeing eye of your great politickal deity!

[MtnGoat]

"You almost forgot to mention the most egregious breach of trust-some might say treason-of the Clinton presidency:"

 

For my money it's providing N Korea with the materials to become a nuclear power, with either no enforcement mechanism to make sure they didn't use it for weapons, or one that was never enforced.

 

In either case, the result has been the same.. The last truly Stalinist state on the planet gets Clinton to provide them with atomic technology and materials because they promised they wouldn't be naughty. Great work and a really stellar example of how to play hardball without a clue.

[ryland_moore]

I am a middle of the road kinda guy. With that said, GW is the worst thing to happen to the US in over two decades. Hei sdestroying the economy, destroying the World's perception on the US and losing Allies left and right (if he goes against the UN on the Iraq situation). DOn't get me wrong, Osama should be dead and Iraq should not have any nuclear or chemical weapons, but Bush's personal agenda is affecting us as citizens. The economy sucks, and it will only get worse when and if we go to war. Clinton made mistakes, but most of us who do not dwell on lame things and participate in on a daily basis (except you son of Caveman since you didn't get any until college )have forgotten all about it. While GW's agenda will leave a bad taste in the rest of the world's mouth throughout our lifetimes. He is fucking up and none of his pretty boyz he has surrounded himself with are going to bail him out. So, all of you with kids and who love GW can explain to your children that they won't be getting that nice, expensive new toy they want for Christmas this year, b/c mommy and daddy's portfolio is all fucked up b/c we have an idiot as a president. Hey Dru, how's the Canuck economy? I could live in BC for a little while. There's some hot bitches up in that mug! Big game hunting for sheep and moose too!

Say goodbye to ANWR. I bet GW is crying as we speak over the 3 million gallons of oil lost in Spain! What a fucking moron. It is not that he is Republican, as I have voted Republican many times, it is that he is a fucking idiot. Put Colin Powell in!

 

[ 11-20-2002, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: ryland moore ]

[MtnGoat]

"Anthony G. Laos, president and chief executive of ProdiGene, Inc. was appointed by President George W. Bush to serve as a member of the Board for International Food and Agriculture Development (BIFAD). Mr.Laos will serve a four-year term, expiring on July 28, 2005.

 

BIFAD, which consists of seven members all appointed by thePresident, provides advice to the Administrator of the United States

Agency for International Development (USAID) on international food issues such as agriculture and food security. BIFAD also assists and

advises the U.S. Government Inter-Agency Working Group on Food

Security in carrying out commitments made in the U.S. Country Paper for the November 1996 World Food Summit and on the Plan of Action agreed to at the summit.

 

ProdiGene, headquartered in College Station, TX, is a privatebiotechnology company that is developing and manufacturing industrial

and pharmaceutical proteins from a transgenic plant system."

 

And? Are we to expect that another administration wouldn't appoint people that reflect *their* ideology, or wouldn't appoint people they knew or worked with or who were supporters? Hardly.

 

What matters is the substance of the stances they take and actions they engage in. If this person fulfills the task they have been appointed for, that's what counts. There is little reason to expect that appointments should reflect an anti biotech position or no experience in biotech, when biotech is an indispensible part of feeding people.

[MtnGoat]

"Hei sdestroying the economy,"

 

how?

 

"destroying the World's perception on the US"

 

What their perception of us is, is far less important than making sure we stick to standing up for ourselves, because no one else will.

 

"but Bush's personal agenda is affecting us as citizens."

 

that's what happens when any president is in office. Disagree all you like with the agenda, when you attack it merely because it's personal, you ignore any agenda held by a person is by definition "personal".

[mattp]

Mtn Goat -

 

Do you actually believe the B.S. about the war on terrorism and that our agenda in said war is to make America more secure?

 

I can understand why some might think we should seek to stay on top of the heap as long as possible (though I think the Rumsfeld doctrine is one of the most horrific foreign policy ideas since Hitler) but I cannot understand how anybody with even a lick of sense would think that pursuing wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and anywhere else in the region is going to reduce terrorism directed at the U.S.

 

As the World Trade Center incident and any number of smaller but still deadly attacks around the world have shown, all it takes is a couple of madmen with a grudge and they can wreak havoc without the support of any foreign government or terrorist organization. Do you really think we are going to "liberate" Iraq and set up some happy democracy there and they are all going to love us?

[Cpt.Caveman]

DEAD KENNEDYS LYRICS

 

"Kinky Sex Makes The World Go 'Round"

 

Greetings:This is the Secretary of War at the State Department

of the United States

We have a problem.

The companies want something done about this sluggish

world economic situation

Profits have been running a little thin lately

and we need to stimulate some growth

Now we know

there's an alarmingly high number of young people roaming

around in your country with nothing to do but stir up trouble

for the police and damage private property.

It doesn't look like they'll ever get a job

It's about time we did something constructive with these people

We've got thousands of 'em here too. They're crawling all over

The companies think it's time we all sit down, have a serious get-together-

And start another war

The President?

He loves the idea! All those missiles streaming overhead to and fro

Napalm

People running down the road, skin on fire

The Soviets seem up for it:

The Kremlin's been itching for the real thing for years.

Hell, Afghanistan's no fun

So whadya say?

We don't even have to win this war.

We just want to cut down on some of this excess population

Now look. Just start up a draft; draft as many of those people as you can.

We'll call up every last youngster we can get our hands on,

hand 'em some speed, give 'em an hour or two to learn how to use

an automatic rifle and send 'em on their way

Libya? El Salvador? How 'bout Northern Ireland?

Or a "moderately repressive regime" in South America?

We'll just cook up a good Soviet threat story

in the Middle East-we need that oil

We had Libya all ready to go and Colonel Khadafy's hit squad

didn't even show up. I tell ya

That man is unreliable.

The Kremlin had their fingers on the button just like we did for that one

Now just think for a minute-We can make this war so big-so BIG

The more people we kill in this war, the more the economy will prosper

We can get rid of practically everybody on your dole queue if we plan this right.

Take every loafer on welfare right off our computer rolls

Now don't worry about demonstrations-just pump up your drug supply.

So many people have hooked themselves on heroin

and amphetamines since we took over, it's just like Vietnam.

We had everybody so busy with LSD they never got too strong.

Kept the war functioning just fine

It's easy.

We've got our college kids so interested in beer

they don't even care if we start manufacturing germ bombs again.

Put a nuclear stockpile in their back yard,

they wouldn't even know what it looked like

So how 'bout it? Look-War is money.

The arms manufacturers tell me unless

we get our bomb factories up to full production

the whole economy is going to collapse

The Soviets are in the same boat.

We all agree the time has come for the big one, so whadya say?!?

That's excellent. We knew you'd agree

The companies will be very pleased.

[Jim]

You do manage a gem now and then Cavey.

[MtnGoat]

"Do you actually believe the B.S. about the war on terrorism and that our agenda in said war is to make America more secure?"

 

So what's up with the "actually"? Only certain people are smart enough to see the "real" agenda.

 

Give me some specific examples of the BS you speak of and I'll tell you wether I "actually" believe them!

 

"I cannot understand how anybody with even a lick of sense would think that pursuing wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and anywhere else in the region is going to reduce terrorism directed at the U.S."

 

I can't understand why anyone with a lick of sense feels that not taking direct action is a good idea. Osama and Co, and others, have directly and specifically said they intend to kill you, and keep on doing so until the world is safe for their brand of Islam.

 

Nothing you can do, nothing you can say, will change the minds of fanatics who feel this way because they view moderation as weakness, and secularism as anathema to Gods word.

 

"Do you really think we are going to "liberate" Iraq and set up some happy democracy there and they are all going to love us?"

 

No, but I'm pretty sure we can remove Saddam as one armory of the mideast and it's a step that must be taken. The philosophy of the Baath party is not compatible with coexistence with the west, combine this with his actions internally and search for bigger and worse weapons and it must be dealt with.

 

I'm not interesed in getting anyone to love us as a goal, it would be a nice sideffect but it should not stand in the way of doing what needs to be done.

[ryland_moore]

Mtn Goat, maybe I did not make myself clear. His personal agenda IS affecting us as citizens in a NEGATIVE way. Citiznes by definition is everyone. You, me, the girl next door that I boned last night. His personal agenda is more money, more oil, bigger business, and he is coming at this from his own personal betterment (his back pocket)and Not what is best for the country. War inherently means a decline in the economy. GW is taking on Iraq without the UN's consent and looking for any loophole he can find that will allow him to bomb the shit out of Iraq regardless of what the UN discovers (that isn't being a rat? - sneaky). I think this is a family agenda b/c Senior Bush felt like a failure in the Gulf War or something. Maybe he has leader's syndrome where he feels depressed b/c he is out and Saddam is still in power. My father, grandfather, and two of my uncles are all finacial advisors, investment bankers, and stock brokers. They are also all Republicans, but know in times of war and in many cases, in times when an extreme right President is at the healm, the economy is reduced. That is why he pulls my and my family's money from the stock market and invests in long-term mutual funds and real estate. That is why I or my family hasn't lost their shirts over the last year, unlike many of my friends. Maybe ALlan Greenspan should be president. He is the most powerful man in the country anyways. I bet GW couldn't change the way millions of people behave just by saying a few words!

 

[ 11-20-2002, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: ryland moore ]

[mattp]

Goat -

I asked whether you believe that our goal in the war against terrorism is to make America less threatened by terrorist attack.

 

I also asked whether you believe that waging wars in the region will further this objectives.

 

I completely disagree with you about whether any of this is "the right thing to do" and I am pretty sure that we are not going to agree on what might be a desireable foreign policy. But I sought to careve out one little piece of the whole question and ask you what you think about it.

 

[ 11-20-2002, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: mattp ]

[Son_of_Caveman]

I'd rather be American and 'not too smart', than Canadian and 'clueless'.

[gregm]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MtnGoat:

"I'm still wanting to know if you think fuel efficiency standards should be federally mandated, since you seemed to agree with the principle of better fuel efficiency."

 

I was working on it, cool your jets!

 

I've never really decided how I feel about this one for certain. On the one hand, it might be useful, on the other it indicates a huge amount of coercive power used to meet a goal that could be more morally jusitifable when reached by consumers *proving* they value what they claim to value via their actual choices.

 

I see lots of fuel efficient cars around today, and yet still someone is making non efficient ones very, very popular, indicating it's real easy to claim to care about economy, but a heck of a lot of someones aren't actually choosing it.

 

I suppose some middle ground is acceptable to me, federal standards for efficiency that creep up a percentage point every few years to reduce impacts on manufacturing and design. Still, federal oversight is a hard sell with me and I'll be upfront about that.

 

I'm glad you're so keen on getting evasions answered, I'll keep that in mind for the future.

---

mtngoat-

 

here in spray it is important to revel in your pagetop. a simple will suffice.

 

thank you.

[Dru]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of Caveman:

I'd rather be American and 'not too smart', than Canadian and 'clueless'.

---

According to Americans , "clueless" is how a Canadian would pronounce "clawless" - which is an apt description of our military might. Thats why we stick to peacekeeping instead of invading helpless 3rd World Countries to depose dictators we installed 15 years previously.

[freeclimb9]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dru:

Thats why [Canadians] stick to peacekeeping instead of invading helpless 3rd World Countries to depose dictators we installed 15 years previously.

---

As you probably already know, Canadian soldiers have been killed overseas in disporportinate numbers compared to the overall population of Canada. Gotta give props to the Canadian military. Some brave, selfless mofos.

[mattp]

But Dru-invading helpless third world countries to depose dictators we installed fifteen years ago is how we promote peace and democracy around the world while you guys just sit back and take all the credit. You selfish bastards.

[sexual_chocolate]

Hey. Bush Sr. wasn't installed, he was elected!

[rbw1966]

I thought it was how we promoted our economy.

[Dru]

quote:

---

Originally posted by freeclimb9:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dru:

Thats why [Canadians] stick to peacekeeping instead of invading helpless 3rd World Countries to depose dictators we installed 15 years previously.

---

As you probably already know, Canadian soldiers have been killed overseas in disporportinate numbers compared to the overall population of Canada. Gotta give props to the Canadian military. Some brave, selfless mofos.

---

Yeah and the latest 4 were killed by American bomber pilots!

[ryland_moore]

gulf wars Episode II

Read the bottom bwahahahah!!

 

[ 11-20-2002, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: ryland moore ]

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

 

Choice pick, holmes.

[Fairweather]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dru:

I saw a double bill last night. Jackass The Movie and Bowling For Columbine. Two documentaries about the American soul. Hooray for Canada

---

A bit off subject but re: "Hooray for Canada":

 

I was in Banff a couple months ago and stopped by the local "Subway" for a sandwich. I ran into a man about 50 yrs old in the hallway leading to the restroom. He was crying. He was unable to find a restroom for his wheelchair-bound elderly dad. His father was in great distress. He told me he had been up and down the street unable to find a disabled-access restroom. He told me that this is a BIG problem in BC, and Canada in general. Apparently enlightened Canada doesnt give a rip about its disabled population; at least as far as an ADA access type of law.

 

Hooray for Canada.