Fairweather Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/01/26/2000764/need-to-go-while-on-the-road-to.html#storylink=mirelated By some accounts the most expensive shitter in the history of the human race--right here in our own state! Meanwhile, our Governor and her union supporters plead poverty and demand more tax money... Elbe rest area a welcome addition on road to Mount Rainier Elbe business owners can stop holding their breath. And travelers passing through the small community 17 miles from the main entrance of Mount Rainier National Park can stop holding their bladders. A long-planned state rest area has finally opened in Elbe, on a part-time basis for now. It should bring relief in more ways than one. There’s no other public restroom in the community, so the bathroom burden for years has fallen on local businesses. Elbe restaurants and stores have dealt with everything from vandalism and messes to increased supply costs as non customers desperately in need of a pit stop turned to their privies. “There’s nowhere to use the restroom here, and people have got to go somewhere,” said Helen Majors, manager of the Elbe Bar and Grill.She said she’s already noticed fewer drop-ins seeking to do their business at her establishment since the rest area opened this month.Some in Elbe do have concerns about the facility on state Route 7, namely that it might not have enough parking. It has about a dozen spaces. Elisa Fruzzetti, owner of the Mount Rainier Railroad Dining Co. by the rest area, said she’s worried there could be problems such as traffic backups.The project also has taken a long time and cost an awful lot of money, she said. But, “(a public restroom) is something the town has needed for a very long time. It is good that we do have something,” Fruzzetti said.The building that holds the bathrooms isn’t new – far from it. The two-story, 3,000-square-foot structure is a refurbished Civilian Conservation Corps bunkhouse and garage from the 1930s. It once housed crews that battled forest fires.The bottom floor now has a small lobby, as well as privies for men and women and a unisex bathroom for families. There are two waterless urinals and five outhouse-like, no-flush “vault” toilets. The top floor isn’t open to the public. In all, the project price tag is about $3.2 million, including design, right-of-way acquisition and construction. The figure reflects more than a decade of work to bring a rest area to Elbe. The state Department of Transportation began planning in 1999. The size of the project fluctuated in the years that followed. At one time there was talk of a facility with up to 16 toilets and 100 parking spaces at a cost of $6 million. Yvonne Medina, WSDOT facilities administrator, said the smaller finished product will preserve some of Elbe’s history and also fill a need. “It’ll get travelers off the road, give them a chance to mitigate fatigue,” she said. The money for the rest area comes from National Scenic Byways grant funds and state coffers. For now, it’s open weekends and holidays, although it’s slated to be open daily during the busier spring and summer months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/01/26/2000764/need-to-go-while-on-the-road-to.html#storylink=mirelated By some accounts the most expensive shitter in the history of the human race--right here in our own state! Meanwhile, our Governor and her union supporters plead poverty and demand more... Elbe rest area a welcome addition on road to Mount Rainier Elbe business owners can stop holding their breath. And travelers passing through the small community 17 miles from the main entrance of Mount Rainier National Park can stop holding their bladders. A long-planned state rest area has finally opened in Elbe, on a part-time basis for now. It should bring relief in more ways than one. There’s no other public restroom in the community, so the bathroom burden for years has fallen on local businesses. Elbe restaurants and stores have dealt with everything from vandalism and messes to increased supply costs as noncustomers desperately in need of a pit stop turned to their privies. “There’s nowhere to use the restroom here, and people have got to go somewhere,” said Helen Majors, manager of the Elbe Bar and Grill. She said she’s already noticed fewer drop-ins seeking to do their business at her establishment since the rest area opened this month. Some in Elbe do have concerns about the facility on state Route 7, namely that it might not have enough parking. It has about a dozen spaces. Elisa Fruzzetti, owner of the Mount Rainier Railroad Dining Co. by the rest area, said she’s worried there could be problems such as traffic backups. The project also has taken a long time and cost an awful lot of money, she said. But, “(a public restroom) is something the town has needed for a very long time. It is good that we do have something,” Fruzzetti said. The building that holds the bathrooms isn’t new – far from it. The two-story, 3,000-square-foot structure is a refurbished Civilian Conservation Corps bunkhouse and garage from the 1930s. It once housed crews that battled forest fires. The bottom floor now has a small lobby, as well as privies for men and women and a unisex bathroom for families. There are two waterless urinals and five outhouse-like, no-flush “vault” toilets. The top floor isn’t open to the public. In all, the project price tag is about $3.2 million, including design, right-of-way acquisition and construction. The figure reflects more than a decade of work to bring a rest area to Elbe. The state Department of Transportation began planning in 1999. The size of the project fluctuated in the years that followed. At one time there was talk of a facility with up to 16 toilets and 100 parking spaces at a cost of $6 million. Yvonne Medina, WSDOT facilities administrator, said the smaller finished product will preserve some of Elbe’s history and also fill a need. “It’ll get travelers off the road, give them a chance to mitigate fatigue,” she said. The money for the rest area comes from National Scenic Byways grant funds and state coffers. For now, it’s open weekends and holidays, although it’s slated to be open daily during the busier spring and summer months. Cueing the "yeah but Bush spent xxxx billions on yyy" response in 3...2...1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 why didn't the invisible hand of the free market solve this here problem years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Unlike Europeans, Americans typically aren't willing to pay to poop. No problem with the public sector--it does a lot of things well. Unfortunately, controlling waste (pardon the pun) isn't one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 If there were any money in it, I have no doubt the invisible hand would be happy to wipe our asses for us. And I'd be happy to let them--especially if it meant keeping the gloved hand of government outta my hole. So what do ya think of that price tag, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 why didn't the invisible hand of the free market solve this here problem years ago? for a private enterprise to make this: -assuming a 20 yr life for the facility that comes to about $160,000/yr for 0% loan -assuming some profit needed for private entity lets assume that the facility needs to bring in $200,000/yr, only $40,000/yr profit -assuming a equal use per day all year, needs to bring in $526/day -assuming about a hundred people per day pay to crap in toilet this comes to about $5/crap -lots of assuming and we know about assuming but who would pay $5 to crap when one could run into the woods for free or use a retailer toilet after buying a $5 item? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 canadians do it right, they just throw some sanicans on the side of the highway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 why didn't the invisible hand of the free market solve this here problem years ago? You can buy a really nice 2000+ foot, 4 bedroom 2.5 bath home in a Seattle suburb for $700K 3+ million for a f-ing toilet? Really? And you blame the "invisible hand" of capitalism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 You can buy a really nice 2000+ foot, 4 bedroom 2.5 bath home in a Seattle suburb for $700K On the lake? Cuz I want a nice view 'n stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 You can buy a really nice 2000+ foot, 4 bedroom 2.5 bath home in a Seattle suburb for $700K On the lake? Cuz I want a nice view 'n stuff. No, but if you have 3.2 million, you can have a McMansion on a lake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 You can buy a really nice 2000+ foot, 4 bedroom 2.5 bath home in a Seattle suburb for $700K On the lake? Cuz I want a nice view 'n stuff. No, but if you have 3.2 million, you can have a McMansion on a lake. With a dock and a Ski Natique? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Yes. And government subsidized flood control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I've never gone shopping for a highway rest stop. The designer has to figure out the maximum shit/hr to expect then see if it will fit into the Elbe sewer system. If not they have to add extra treatment facilities. Porta-potties and a pump truck making routine stops might work, but then you need to worry about hooligans out tipping porta-potties for fun. So many factors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtguide Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Over the course of a 10-year project span, and adding in all the yearly costs for office, personnel and facilities expenses,plus architects, permits, contractors, land acquisition, easements, engineering, it can really add up. I'm actually surprised it wasn't higher considering the length of time involved. It comes out to $320,000.00 a year, or just under $27,000.00 a month,about $900.00 per day, which seems extremely reasonable when you account for wages and salaries, and all the other above-mentioned particulars. It does seem that it shouldn't have taken ten years, but then there's a lot that I don't know about the whole process. Things can be delayed by tight fists in the legislature, which often winds up costing even more in the long run, than if there had simply been an early decision to go ahead and build. Personnel and staff on hand have to be paid while they wait to get a go-ahead, working on other things in the meantime. After all, it IS a bureacracy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 perhaps if they require a northwest forest pass in order to use said shitter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 There used to be porta potties on the north side of the gas station for about 2 years around 1992. That worked out well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Maybe the citizens of Elbe rioted after hearing all the out of townees saying, "Oh you're from Elbe, that filthy place with all the porta-potties." Edited February 3, 2012 by Feck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Yes. And government subsidized flood control. An environmental disaster, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Well, there is essentially no private flood control so it is easy to blame government, especially when your side of the aisle has done everything it could to prevent sensible development that accounts for natural hazard in flood plains or coastal areas. This is pretty much equivalent to someone with your political leaning, in 50 years from now, blaming government for not acting on climate change while there was still time to prevent its major consequences. Edited February 3, 2012 by j_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Read The Bulldozer in the Countryside, by Adam Rome for a good, balanced historical analysis of the post WWII housing debacle. He spends a lot of time on the floodplain issue--as well as the other accompanying disasters of suburbia. FWIW, I don't think you really know what "my side of the aisle" is or where I stand on a good many issues. But, by all means, feel free to use your beliefs about the other to reinforce your own social reality. :kisss: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 There's some discussion about how small objects can appear large when you don't have a reference point - like a water bottle looking like a person in a white out - on the Rainier forum. Same principle seems to apply here. How much should a rest area cost, exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 a hole dug in good soil is free. maybe the rest stop should come with a trail and lots of little shovels. Or a dispenser with blue bags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Read The Bulldozer in the Countryside, by Adam Rome for a good, balanced historical analysis of the post WWII housing debacle. He spends a lot of time on the floodplain issue--as well as the other accompanying disasters of suburbia. and? In any case, good to know that you now think suburban sprawl is a disaster. Let's see how well you apply this learning to public transit and sustainable transportation (like CAFE standards), renewable energy, codes and regulations (that get in the way of developers and "free" market) next time these topics come up. Edited February 3, 2012 by j_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 there's a good chance the good folks at timberline lodge have spent 3.2$ million cleaning up all the protest turds i've deposited over the years on their front steps each time i discover the climber's bathroom's inexplicably closed at 3 in the morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Read The Bulldozer in the Countryside, by Adam Rome for a good, balanced historical analysis of the post WWII housing debacle. He spends a lot of time on the floodplain issue--as well as the other accompanying disasters of suburbia. and? In any case, good to know that you now think suburban sprawl is a disaster. Let's see how well you apply this learning to public transit and sustainable transportation (like CAFE standards), renewable energy, codes and regulations (that get in the way of developers and "free" market) next time these topics come up. I understand. Nuance is a difficult concept for some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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