V-threaders

[John Frieh]

I'd reply but you keep editing your posts. Let me know when you're done changing shit and I can give you a solid reply

[tvashtarkatena]

That's a tired one, too, John. You haven't yet mentioned my TR count...

 

Stay puffy, brah. I know you will.

 

Now give me some eye contact.

[DanielHarro]

My experiance has been super good pulling my rope through the V thread to leave no trace in the alpine since "alpine" ice like in AK is not generally free flowing water, instead made by freeze thaw cycles and you won't have issues with frozzen ropse in your anchor since water is not flowing and freezing. I know Colin really promotes this technique and uses it a lot in the alpine. As far as using existing V thread, don't be stupid you must inspect every anchor before you decide to trust it. I like using 1/4 inch webbing, or 6mm cord.

[genepires]

now now boys, lets not have too much shit in this sandbox. agree to disagree and lets have a group hug, hhmmm-kay?

ya both have good points.

[Dane]

"A far more talented pair of climbers than you" "You haven't yet mentioned my TR count..."

 

If TRs are now how you win dick measureing contests they ought to at least be about something worth bragging on and be better than the girl's Least you be unable to look the other boys in the eye.

 

Only an idiot trusts someone else's V threads no matter the tat size. How freakin hard is it to make your own V thread? Answer? Not very. Hell, on occasion I even allow my partners to make them.

 

Looked at a video recently of a mostly US crew bailing on a big alpine route and every v thread (and every rock anchor) had a single biner left to run the rope through. Not like I have any intention of taking or leaving 10/20 or 30 spare biners. But they did. Steve House on K7 btw. Worth thinking about.

 

FWIW I have and have used a Candella and the nasty little wire fooker the Canadians sell. The wire rope and fish hook sliced open a finger digging around in my pack several winters back in -20 temps. Took for ever to get the blood stopped. Haven't... won't use it again. I do carry pre cut tat though. If I use tat at all. Depends on the ice conditions. Water falls get tat. Alpine sometimes. Daniel said it all better with less words.

 

Hard to believe we lived (and haven't written a TR on it) but my partner and I once rapped a dozen or so times of BOLLARDS (both snow and ice) getting off the North butt of Hunter. Saw Jeff Lowe mentioned them in a film as well. Sketchy imo, even compared to 1/2" tape V threads.

 

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

6 mm cord's quite a bit stronger than 1/2" tubular, so I'd stick with that over the other, personally.

 

Hey, I've rapped off of blades of grass, but, if given a choice...

 

You can always spring for 5.5 dyneema and negate the issue. It's not THAT expensive, considering the potential consequences and total cost of such trips.

 

Of course you inspect your anchors. I just like to think about those who might follow. They might be tired or in a hurry, bad weather, whatev. My bad on that.

Edited January 26, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[YocumRidge]

now now boys, lets not have too much shit in this sandbox. agree to disagree and lets have a group hug, hhmmm-kay?

ya both have good points.

 

Thanks Gene for saying it.

[tvashtarkatena]

You were injured by a Candela?

 

LOL

 

Is there something wrong with being a girl? I'll have to chat with the GF about that.

Edited January 26, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[keenwesh]

HAHA DANE CUT HIMSELF ON A V THREADER, HE MUST BE A COMPLETE AND TOTAL IDIOT. OH AND A GIRL TOO CAUSE I EDIT MY POSTS EVERY 30 SECONDS

 

dude why are you being a douche, just chill out.

[tvashtarkatena]

Per Gene's suggestion, we might all ask ourselves that question right about now, eh Keenwash?

 

I'm sure Dane can take care of himself against a little girl.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[John Frieh]

Vince Anderson on commitment versus convenience: link

 

Though it would be more “convenient”, I don’t think that convenience necessarily equals improvement

 

Will Gadd thoughts on threadless v threads: link

 

I’ve done it lots. BUT, if the rope re-freezes even a tiny bit in the hole, or there’s a lot of rope drag from, say, twists, you can rapidly have a bad experience with a stuck rope.

 

Will nails it best here:

 

Few solutions or concepts in climbing are absolute. I’ve been playing this game for more than 30 years, and each year I revise, tune, toss out and otherwise change my systems in light of new ideas or data. This summer I took the first guiding course and exam here in Canada; I learned a lot, but the most important thing I learned was a different way of looking at climbing.The big thing is to have an understanding of what you’re dealing with, or reduce the situation to parts that do make sense and will do the job at hand.

 

Will Gadd simple tricks for speed on multipitch routes: link

 

5. While the second is climbing you drill the V-thread. I like to use cord rather than use the ropes to feed the thread when descending, keeps the friction lower (stuck ropes really, really suck at night on the descent), plus the cord gives a nice place to clip into on the descent (saving more time on the route...). Build as much of the V-Thread as possible, normally you can get it all done unless the second is absolutely flying. He finishes it if you don't.

6. Second hits belay, clove hitch him to the V-thread with his rope first, then to the lower biner on the upper screw keeping things all neat and organized so the leader's rope will run free and leaving enough free rope so that when you take him off the ATC you have room to clove-hitch him neatly into the lower hole on the screw. Now you have three bomber pieces in the ice.

[Dane]

Of course you inspect your anchors.

 

I place gear most winters that I know will get reused. That tat gets a chain link on ice because of it. True Alpine stuff is different. How often will it get followed and reused without inspection? I look for gear to make that easier FOR ME...how much I can carry, how easy is it to tie and cut.

 

V threads with no tat are cool in the mtns if they work for you. V threads on well used water falls with chain links installed are cool as well.

 

V threads lacing up walls of ice might be handy but they are unsightly and take some of the pleasure out of it for me.

[John Frieh]

True Alpine stuff is different. How often will it get followed and reused without inspection? I look for gear to make that easier FOR ME...how much I can carry, how easy is it to tie and cut.

 

Nailed it.

[keenwesh]

it's keenwesh, wesh, as in waeschle, as in my last name.

[tvashtarkatena]

Not sure what most of the above has to do with this chat...the bolded points have been covered already. Leaving v threads is faster on an open and down route, but that seems self evident.

[tvashtarkatena]

True Alpine stuff is different. How often will it get followed and reused without inspection? I look for gear to make that easier FOR ME...how much I can carry, how easy is it to tie and cut.

 

Nailed it.

 

 

Depends on the route, no? Even some hard and remote alpine routes get done often during good conditions. Obviously, your party comes first, but I just wanted to present a broader way of looking at things.

 

In any case, why no comments on my main recommendation: using 5.5mm dyneema for v threads instead of cheap tat, which makes this whole discussion moot? Any thoughts on that idea?

[tvashtarkatena]

it's keenwesh, wesh, as in waeschle, as in my last name.

 

Lighten up, Keenwash.

[tvashtarkatena]

Sorry, I just love "Stripes"

[John Frieh]

True Alpine stuff is different. How often will it get followed and reused without inspection? I look for gear to make that easier FOR ME...how much I can carry, how easy is it to tie and cut.

 

Nailed it.

 

 

Depends on the route, no? Even some hard and remote alpine routes get done often during good conditions. Obviously, your party comes first, but I just wanted to present a broader way of looking at things.

 

In any case, why no comments on my main recommendation: using 5.5mm dyneema for v threads instead of cheap tat, which makes this whole discussion moot? Any thoughts on that idea?

 

Call me a chest beater but expect me to continue the dialogue? :laf:

 

As Gene pointed out: plenty of arguments for either side in this thread. Time to let everyone else make up their own mind

[tvashtarkatena]

Thank you for that Mr. Frieh. We're all very concerned for your delicate feelings. If you're concerned about being labeled a chest beater, there's a solution for that readily at hand.

 

Now about the dyneema question...why not use it rather than cheap, weak tat? Is it not a good idea for some reason, other than who presented it, that is?

 

Yeah, I'm talkin' to you, Nastia! Plunk soma that biowiz salary into some longevity!

Edited January 26, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[YocumRidge]

Yeah, I'm talkin' to you, Nastia! Plunk soma that biowiz salary into some longevity!

 

If you are referring to this:

 

then that was a 5 mm dyneema and you did not seem to mind it at the time, Pat

[genepires]

back to original idea. I got the candela and like it.

 

I always bring a spare v threader though. It is made of bailing wire that is filed and folded over to make a hook. Rolled the other end into a small loop for a handle. Roll whole thing up into a 2" radius loop and stored in pocket. It works very well also.

[tvashtarkatena]

Dyneema? Ha! All this time!

 

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

There are a few out there, DIY and pre-fab ones.

 

I used to have a couple made of coat hangers but inevitably they rust and break, and inevitably that happens on top of a pitch.

 

Just recently I tried a Grivel candela and it sucked...If you want to spend eternity threading a rope, get that thing

 

So, I am leaning towards a DIY rig. Any recommendations on the design, type of wire, etc?

 

Thanks

 

Our mutual friend Terry makes some at his workshop and sells them (I think really cheap, and he may give it to you for free). I have one and it is pretty nifty.

 

 

[chubler]

This thread gets my vote: 5 stars

 

With respect to the v-threader: if you're worried your coat hanger will break half way down the route but your adamant to using a homemade model, try a thicker diameter welding rod. Good luck trying to break it...it's tough enough bending it with pliers to make the hook/handle.