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keenwesh

compressor route chopped

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http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1725375/Cerro-Torre-A-Mountain-Consecrated-The-Resurrection-of-th

FIgured I could start another shit storm over here, why pass up a opportunity.

 

gonna have to be honest, kinda mixed feelings about this. However when I make it down there there'll be no question about it now. gotta give the ragini route a try.

 

discuss.

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Two thumbs up!

 

Good question by "Pass the Pitons Pete" on the taco:

 

"Were Maestri's bolts just chopped off with a chisel? Do we have any before and after photos? And I'm knott criticizing, I'm merely asking. I have seen some damned ugly chopped bolts. As per buddy's question below, if you "chop" a bolt with a chisel, the bolt remains in the hole, and you are left with an unsightly hunk of metal. Now on a sunny crag, it might be unsightly. On a frozen wasteland like Cerro Torre, it might well be invisible. So just askin'...."

 

And Rolo's answer, also from the taco:

 

"in response to Pete's questions, the bolts are "preassure pins" of sorts, a sort of glorified rivet. When you hit them from the top with a hammer the whole bolt comes out like butter. Three to seven blows is enough."

 

Wonder where the compressor is myself.

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What a bunch of dicks. Destroying another persons climb no matter how messed up it is is a truly dick thing to do. IMO

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Destroying another persons climb no matter how messed up it is is a truly dick thing to do. IMO

 

That's what Maestri did, get it?

 

He didn't climb the route anyway, so how is it his?

 

You merely try a route and you own it, that what you're saying? So Maestri should've put red tape on his compressor?

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An act of vandalism pure and simple. If they had permission of the Argentines to chop the route, it would be one thing, but I am sure they did not. As many people make their livlihood from this route's attraction down there.

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Wasn't Jason Kruk the guy who crapped his pants in that off-width?
That sounds vaguely familiar, yes... Googlebot is searching the interwebs... searching... :[]

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Googlebot returns 1 of 1 results... :[] Good recall, Colin!

 

[video:youtube]

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"That climb was stolen from the future. Without all those bolts the history of that marvelous mountain would have been very different. I am convinced that in alpinism how you have climbed is more important than what you have climbed, and I have no doubt that the best are those that leave the least amount of stuff behind."

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An act of vandalism pure and simple. If they had permission of the Argentines to chop the route, it would be one thing, but I am sure they did not. As many people make their livlihood from this route's attraction down there.

 

stealing this point from someone on the taco, but did maestrati have permission to place them? come on dude it's for the better.

 

plus, look at the new "standard route"

 

http://pataclimb.com/climbingareas/chalten/torregroup/torre/ragni.html

 

looks pretty fuckin classic to me.

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What's embarrassing is it took this long for someone to go clean up Maestri's mess. Oh, and love the commercial tourism argument for 'vandalism'. Gotta remember to donate some epoxy sticks to the cause.

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plus, look at the new "standard route"

 

http://pataclimb.com/climbingareas/chalten/torregroup/torre/ragni.html

 

looks pretty fuckin classic to me.

Classic indeed! Tunnelling through cotton candy "ice" with snow-filled stuff sacks for belay anchors - how 'core is that, eh!!??

I mean, I'm assuming they came up with that solution "on the fly." Impressive...

 

Very good read. Thanks for that link, keen!

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Ego.

 

Both the installation of the bolts, AND the removal.

 

Or so I think.

 

Better style would have been to simply climb the route free, and leave it as it was.

 

Having said that, I would have most favored an approach that was informed entirely by the opninions of the local residents (read: Argentinians); they're the ones with a dog in the fight, way more than the gringos.

Edited by Kimmo

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Kimmo - you bring up some good points about the locals having a dog in the fight. Do you think their (the climbers who chopped the route) method had a neo-colonial tinge to it? Or is it more like the consensus of the climbing community overwhelmingly favored their actions (which seems to be more the case from what I've heard). In most cases I say leave people's routes alone (barring discussion of certain notable examples of breaches of ethics like the compressor route or other vastly over-bolted or unethically bolted climbs). But this is an exception I think.

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Googlebot returns 1 of 1 results... :[] Good recall, Colin!

 

[video:youtube]

 

the whole things to be a day late and a dollar short, but this video, I just shit my pants laughing watching it!

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Kimmo - you bring up some good points about the locals having a dog in the fight. Do you think their (the climbers who chopped the route) method had a neo-colonial tinge to it?

 

sure, why not? whitey goes to another's country and imposes will on populace (again, not entirely sure how locals felt, but i recall them not wanting the thing chopped. i'd guess it has something to do with many earning a livelyhood from the climbing).

 

Or is it more like the consensus of the climbing community overwhelmingly favored their actions

 

can't say i can glean from what i've read any "consensus" regarding this issue, but i don't think it matters as much what gringo in europe thinks, versus what local in argentina thinks.

 

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Ok, so a consensus in the climbing community is pretty rare. I'm basing my opinion of some of the respected magazines opinions (and my own pondering of the issue). You have to trust some authority or what are you left with? Not much.

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You have to trust some authority or what are you left with? Not much.

 

never allow "authority" to be the final arbiter. it is much much better to be left with "not much" than a lie from "authority".

 

(i don't recall the "authorities" opining much about local opinion either.)

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Bolt chopping always makes me a little said.

 

For new routes, I'm all for good strict ethics consistent with the local consensus, with the minimum possible gear left behind. The Compressor route seems awfully contrived and controversial from that get go, but does that justify erasing it entirely?

 

To remove a route in this fashion implicitly assumes that your way is not only the right way, but the only way acceptable for anyone to proceed. And that strikes me as a arrogant and elitist.

 

To each their own. If the Community doesn't like a route, don't maintain it. Leave it for it's historical significance, but allow it fade. The bolts will rust, but remain as a reminder.

 

 

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To remove a route in this fashion implicitly assumes that your way is not only the right way, but the only way acceptable for anyone to proceed. And that strikes me as a arrogant and elitist.

Ass backwards, fixed it for you...

 

For Maestri to put up a route in this fashion implicitly assumes that your way is not only the right way, but the only way acceptable for anyone to proceed. And that strikes me as a arrogant and elitist.

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Sometimes a subtlety turns the whole argument.......

 

Maestri himself wanted it chopped, but as in everything else he tried on the Torre, he failed.

 

Remember that Maestri himself chopped bolts on his way down from his summit attempt, as the story goes, because he had a change of heart after coming so close to the summit and wanted the mountain to be inviolate.

 

The evidence points to this: the loss of his friend Egger drove Maestri to lie about their attempt and drove him to try to redeem his honor and his friend by any and all means (compressor, fixed lines, bolt ladders, etc.) in his second attempt, but in the end perhaps he relented after he had spent all of his wrath on the mountain.

 

Seems like a fitting end to the story, and a tribute to both Egger and Maestri, that their part of the story of Cerro Torre has now run its full course. What was a stain on Maestri's honor, and done in the name of Egger, is now undone.

 

Kinda seems like a happy ending to me.

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