ILuvAliens Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 quote: Err. . .I mean randonne is french for can't tele. No, but tele is french/english/japanese/etc. for I am a ski snob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 quote: Originally posted by ILuvAliens: quote: Err. . .I mean randonne is french for can't tele. No, but tele is french/english/japanese/etc. for I am a ski snob. There is some accuracy to this statement but, in my case, it just happens to be an historical accident that I ski on telemark gear. Telemark skiing caught on when my buddies and I were ready to try ski mountaineering and it never even occurred to us that there might be some other way to do it. As far as we knew, there was cross country and downhill -- one for back country and the other for resorts. Twenty years later, I can see the merits of both telemark and AT gear, and I have no sense that telemark is superior (in fact, I would recommend to any new ski mountaineer that they buy AT gear) but I'll stick with tele because I've grown comfortable with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 quote: Originally posted by mattp: Twenty years later, I can see the merits of both telemark and AT gear, and I have no sense that telemark is superior (in fact, I would recommend to any new ski mountaineer that they buy AT gear) but I'll stick with tele because I've grown comfortable with it.[/QB] It might not be 20 years in my case, but otherwise "Yea, what he said." Â I add that freeheel is like a drug to me, it might not be the best for me, but everytime I think about giving it up, I can't. Wait that sounds a bit like cc.com too! It sucks for climbing in tele boots, it wastes energy, and it costs just as much these days. The only real benefit is seeing the jealous looks on peoples faces in the lodge when you are running up the stairs as they waddle up sideways... That is if your legs aren't too fried to run. I usually try to anyway just to promote the tele snob stereotype. Â When I first bought into the idea of skinning up a hill just to come back down, tele was the lightest and cheapest way to do it. Now AT has caught up and I'm stuck, or is that unstuck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILuvAliens Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 Yeah, I'd like to think most peolple are in the same boat you are. It is a snob like statment. That is all I was alluding to. What ever you do, just like it. And let others do the same, whether your on one plank or two, freehealed or locked down. Â And bring on the FRESHIEZZZZZZZZZZZ!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 Snoboy - When we have the annual telemark vs AT debate, I always point out that telemark gear is actually better when it comes to crawling through the woods or picking your way through a bunch of avalanche debris on the way to most backcountry ski runs. The AT folks generally refuse to believe this, because they are an inferior breed lacking in intelligence, but being able to pick up the tail of your ski without having your heel locked down comes in real handy lots of times. The telemark gear is not as good on the steeps, perhaps, but on most of my outings half of the fun is in the getting there. Â [ 10-31-2002, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: mattp ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gapertimmy Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 ohhh shit, here we go again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILuvAliens Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted November 2, 2002 Author Share Posted November 2, 2002 quote: Originally posted by jaee: So, Tex, what you're saying is ski mountaineering isn't worth discussing here because of the ski part. I suppose you're right  Have you read Lowell Skoog's trip report on the North Face of Buckner in a day? It's in the rec.climbing archives. I'd say that was a good days work. If skis suck, and walking rules, howabout putting up some cash that says you can do the North Face of Buckner from the trailhead (via Bostin Basin & Sharkfin Col) in 12.5 hrs. Sound fair? Put up or shut-up Listen up you little <50 post little snot, not to be disrespectful but I can put up some impressive chest-beats if its really necessary. I am not saying skiing isn't fun or has been a part of many impressive climbing ascents. I am just tired of reading all the cluttered freshiez crap about the fresh snow. The only snow I am interested in is if I need to bring crampons or not. Oh, and buckner is not an especially impressive mountain anyway. If your willing to put a decent sum of money on your little "achievement" I'll bet I could beat your time without skis. How's that for "putting up." Be careful what you say though, I am an accomplished endurance athelete. If you don't believe me, ask highlander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Tex, Â You're seriously upset with clutter? Maybe you should stop reading CC. Clutter is the norm here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 jaee, Tex is as strong as Ox and hikes and climbs faster than anyone I climb with. If he put his mind to it he could hammer your ass into the ground, skis or not. Who cares anyway, each to his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin_B Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 quote: ... Listen up you little <50 post little snot....What does the number of posts a person has, have to do with this debate? Just curious, sounds like a slam to those new to cc.com. Are new members not allowed to partake in these debates? --Dustin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 I don't know Mattp. Haiku David and I were up in the Blackcomb backcountry last March and David dropped into this steep narrow chute that gave these local hardcore AT skiers serious pause, on Tua megas with Garmont Garas and nailed it (of course he has 30 years of experience). I had same gear except T-3s and I had trouble down climbing it! I think tele gear can do all that AT can if the user has the mind to do it. BTW, anyone have an idea why there is such a lack of Tele-skiers around Whistler. Are Canadians super influenced by the Euros?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaee Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Exactly, Tex. I believe you've put your finger on the crux of the matter. My value as a human being is minimal since I don't have as many posts on CascadeClimbers.com as you. Oh, to only be as cool as you. May I lick your boots? Â Getting a little hot aren't you, cowfuck? Since skiing sucks so much and you're such a hotshot "accomplished endurance athelete", my single point was that I bet you can't do the North Face of Buckner (which is, of course, not an especially impressive mountain), car to car, without skis, thru Boston Basin, over Sharkfin col, in 12 hours and 30 minutes. Â I don't care to compete against you. You were the knob spouting about skiing. I merely emphasized that skiing can be more efficient by using a classic example of the terrain that can be covered using skis. I offered to demonstrate this by a friendly wager of you jogging over Buckner and back to the car in 12.5 hours without skis. If you can beat or match a skier, you win. If you can't, you're a loser anyway. Evidently your reading comprehension is as poor as your social skills appear to be. I didn't attack you. I was simply debating your point. Since you lack those skills apparent in higher forms of life, you chose to attack me, rather than defend your point. Â Nuthin' like trollin' for trolls. Ignore this one, if you can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 I think Tex is secretly jealous of those of us who will actually be enjoying all the snow the mountains have to offer, schussing the hinterlands in great carving arcs, whooping with joy as we have a BLAST for the next 6 months as he wallows on snoeshoes for not nearly as many summit trips as some of the "impure" climbers cluttering up CC.com with a topic obviously enjoyed by a great many NW climbers. So we'll post , and post, and keep on posting about freshies, nand tex will posthole, and posthole,and Tex's little jealousy complex will bother him even more while we go have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted November 2, 2002 Author Share Posted November 2, 2002 I did not start this post to diss the validity of skiing in the mountains. Whether you tele or AT they are both good means of travel for traveling up lower angle and descending slopes. Skiing for the sake of skiing is fine too. However, I am a climber. I am a climbers climber. The allure of climbing for me is the thrill of moving upward on clean rock routes, on steep ice, seeing great views, and having the feeling of being an animal just as the elk feels running in the forest. For me, climbing is when I feel most alive, most natural, and most in my element. Skiing feels unnatural to me and I am detached from the mountain. I am thankful you are not all like me however. I understand some of you may feel the same way about getting fresh esses or getting some free-heel turns down some sick icey coulouir. So be it. Do not threaten me with your pathetic speed ascents on skis. If I was into that sort of thing I am sure I could put up some sick times as well with or without skis. As it is, I climb for the experience. Sometimes that means bustin your ass climbing for 26 hours straight and sometimes that means chillin, suckin down some TG stout. You can taunt me with your fresh powder and ridicule my opinions but I know deep down I don't give a fly snaffle what you think. Â PS freshiez can eat my Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Funny you would say that because skiing has often been the time when I feel most attached to a mountain. I have found that it is hard to beat the feeling of power and satisfaction when you look back at a big summit after an effortless, silent run and can say I was just there 20 minutes ago. Ski mountaineering unlocks some of the most exclusive winter domains in the n.w., places not many people go because they might ski and they might climb, but they don't do both. The Three Sisters in Oregon or hut to hut tours in B.C. may appear tame compared to what some people here do on this site, but for me, being able to traverse that wilderness and scoot up and down summits with ease makes me feel very much one with the mountains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Tex, Iain well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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